Lamar Jackson

[rmcjacket23]

We don’t know the details, but I don’t believe for one second that the Ravens are trying to low ball him. There were plenty of reports (based off of unknown sources) that it was in excess of Murray and Wilson deals, but the guaranteed money was the sticking point. But you never get details until the agreement takes place.

Regardless of what it was, I find it quite comical that the Kyler Murray contract is "insulting" to some people. That's not a logical thought process at all.

Kyler Murray's contract is #4 in total value, #3 in AAV, #7 in signing bonus, #3 in $ gtd at signing, and #2 in practical gtd money. I honestly don't know why people think Lamar is somehow significantly higher than that, because there's really not much higher they can possibly go.

The most amusing part to me is literally the only difference between Murray's contract and Watson's contract is the guaranteed money. It's obviously a huge, material difference, but I don't think some fans really care about that either. Watson isn't making $50M a year. He's making $46M a year.

If the Ravens offered Lamar the exact same contract Murray got, I'd have zero issues with the Ravens stance. $46M a year, nearly 80% of it guaranteed. Will be top 5 paid at his position. That's not a bad deal by any possible metric.

The people that think its a bad deal only think that way because they think Lamar should get the Watson fully gtd deal. And as I've said before, I don't think he should nor do I think he will. From the Ravens OR anybody else. If he wants a fully gtd contract, he should be signing the Aaron Rodgers deal, which is a 3 year deal.

 

[rmcjacket23]

This situation is so simple that it's just sickening.

1) Lamar gets hurt
2) Ravens diagnose a borderline grade 3 PCL strain
3) The Ravens know he is overwhelmingly likely to be out for the year. A grade 2 was enough to put him out, a grade 3 was a certainty.
4) The Ravens actively lie about his injury (just as they did last year)
5) Lamar gets slandered in the process
6) The team does not use this situation to make a meaningful attempt to improve the team

6 is especially disgusting imo when you know Huntley is limited all season by shoulder tendinitis.

Just out of curiosity... what does a "meaningful attempt to improve the team" mean in December?

Also I don't think they lied. They just weren't transparent about what they knew, because it doesn't benefit them to be transparent. Lack of transparency isn't lying. It's just not telling you what you want to hear.

 

[Tank]

We don’t know the details, but I don’t believe for one second that the Ravens are trying to low ball him. There were plenty of reports (based off of unknown sources) that it was in excess of Murray and Wilson deals, but the guaranteed money was the sticking point. But you never get details until the agreement takes place.

….this. It makes zero sense the Ravens were trying lowball Lamar.

 

[BoredMarine13]

The Broncos spent draft picks on qbs...

People acknowledge the attempts. Doesn't mean they were successful.

Mark Clayton was a first round pick and never heard anyone early saying, man Flaccos is surrounded by weapons. That Quinn fella is really about to take off

But Ravens fans generally do not acknowledge the attempts. They prefer the Shannon Sharpe/ First Take approach but burying their heads in the sand and shouting nonsense like we failed Lamar

 

[UPennChem]

Just out of curiosity... what does a "meaningful attempt to improve the team" mean in December?

Also I don't think they lied. They just weren't transparent about what they knew, because it doesn't benefit them to be transparent. Lack of transparency isn't lying. It's just not telling you what you want to hear.

Sir they lied. You can't tell me when every single week including the very first week after Lamar got hurt that when John said we're hopeful he'll play that he wasn't actively deceiving everyone. He was. And he thought it would provide a competitive advantage when it certainly doesn't. Made the team just look really foolish.

Secondly, a meaningful attempt to improve the team is 6 weeks ago see if you can't find a guy to bring in and run the team the rest of the year. Let me be very clear before you say some aggressively contrarian shit. What I'm saying here is very reasonable I promise.

You construct the roster with a backup in mind and you commit to that guy. That guy is Huntley. You can see that I'm a little biased against Huntley because even at the conclusion of last year I said he shouldn't be the backup this year. I'll say that about him again this year. Now when you know you've lost your QB1 for the year, your QB2 is up and you need to prep your QB3 to be QB2. Now if Huntley was healthy, I think you have to play him fully and live with the decision you made him your backup. But when you know youve got 6 weeks left in a season and your QB1 is totally out, and your QB2 is bad, injured, and relegated to < 10 yards passing, to not bring just anyone else in is committing to not really caring.

The Ravens have with their actions told us, we're ok to put out an offense led by a guy who won't score us points and if we win it will be on the backs of the defense and running backs. If we lose, oh well.

I'm simply saying we should not have had to go AB as the QB3 here. Dude is a UDFA rookie who didn't make the team. We could've easily signed a guy with NFL experience and the ability to throw longer than 10 yards. It's a low ask, but that's how bad a hurt Huntley and rookie AB are.

A real backup QB actually wins us that game last week. I'm almost sure of it.

 

[rossihunter2]

You construct the roster with a backup in mind and you commit to that guy. That guy is Huntley. You can see that I'm a little biased against Huntley because even at the conclusion of last year I said he shouldn't be the backup this year. I'll say that about him again this year. Now when you know you've lost your QB1 for the year, your QB2 is up and you need to prep your QB3 to be QB2. Now if Huntley was healthy, I think you have to play him fully and live with the decision you made him your backup. But when you know youve got 6 weeks left in a season and your QB1 is totally out, and your QB2 is bad, injured, and relegated to < 10 yards passing, to not bring just anyone else in is committing to not really caring.

i guess my question is... who's available 6 weeks ago that helps this team?

 

[All_black_everything]

i guess my question is... who's available 6 weeks ago that helps this team?

Baker Mayfield

/s

 

[UPennChem]

i guess my question is... who's available 6 weeks ago that helps this team?

Not sure. Here are some options they could have explored.

Josh Johnson, Can Newton, Blake Bortles, Mike Glennon, Sean Mannion, AJ McCarron, Tim Boyle, etc.

Maybe they're literally all worse that AB and hurt Huntley. I'd really doubt it though.

 

[Simba]

i guess my question is... who's available 6 weeks ago that helps this team?

This is the big thing. There aren't enough good starting QBs let alone good backups. Options were street FAs or dudes on the PS. That would include guys like Josh Dobbs, David Blough, etc. that changed teams and got starts. Not sure anyone out there would put us in a better situation.

 

[gtalk12]

@rmcjacket23 you don't want to see the names lol

 

[rmcjacket23]

Not sure. Here are some options they could have explored.

Josh Johnson, Can Newton, Blake Bortles, Mike Glennon, Sean Mannion, AJ McCarron, Tim Boyle, etc.

Maybe they're literally all worse that AB and hurt Huntley. I'd really doubt it though.

lol half those guys (Glennon, Bortles, Mannion, McCarron) I wouldn't want within a hundred miles of this offense. You think they're going to be able to come in and operate the run scheme we run out of? It's not just a Power I, turn around and hand it off to the back type of scheme.

And no, I don't think Cam or Johnson are better than Huntley or AB. I think all of these players suck, and none of them would have a material impact on the team.

End of day, for the fans, its time to man the fuck up and get real. If you have an MVP level QB, in a Roman scheme that doesn't have a lot of playmakers, and they get hurt, you're not going to win much. That's just the reality. I think the FO is perfectly fine in getting what they can get out of the players we have and moving on. If that means losing, so be it.

News flash to fans... it's OK to lose sometimes. There's another season coming right around the bend. There's franchises that haven't seen winning in decades. It's OK to lose a few games when you've created an offense around one player. The problem isn't "well we didn't do enough dumpster diving for backups". The problem is we created a system that's dependent on a single player to achieve what we want.

You can't fix that in December.

 

[rmcjacket23]

@rmcjacket23 you don't want to see the names lol

I deleted my post asking, since I didn't read far enough. And no, that list sucks.

 

[UPennChem]

@rmcjacket23 you don't want to see the names lol

Did I go to the wrong site to get the names or you just think they are ass? Because they're certainly ass

 

[UPennChem]

lol half those guys (Glennon, Bortles, Mannion, McCarron) I wouldn't want within a hundred miles of this offense. You think they're going to be able to come in and operate the run scheme we run out of? It's not just a Power I, turn around and hand it off to the back type of scheme.

And no, I don't think Cam or Johnson are better than Huntley or AB.

I squarely believe that Johnson or Newton would be better than Huntley. I put the other names because they exist. I thought it was kinda stupid to say there were literally no options.

But I'm serious about Johnson. I thought when Johnson played last year he was better than last year's Huntley. And this year's Huntley is far worse than last year's Huntley.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I squarely believe that Johnson or Newton would be better than Huntley. I put the other names because they exist. I thought it was kinda stupid to say there were literally no options.

But I'm serious about Johnson. I thought when Johnson played last year he was better than last year's Huntley. And this year's Huntley is far worse than last year's Huntley.

Just so we are clear on the timeline...
Josh Johnson has been on the 49ers active roster since December 4th. December 4th is also the day that Lamar got injured.

So in order for Johnson to have been a Raven, he would have needed to be on the Ravens roster before Lamar got injured.

 

[Simba]

I squarely believe that Johnson or Newton would be better than Huntley. I put the other names because they exist. I thought it was kinda stupid to say there were literally no options.

But I'm serious about Johnson. I thought when Johnson played last year he was better than last year's Huntley. And this year's Huntley is far worse than last year's Huntley.

Cam could hardly throw the ball more than 10 yards himself last year and Josh Johnson literally was on his way to SF already on the day Lamar got hurt

 

[UPennChem]

lol half those guys (Glennon, Bortles, Mannion, McCarron) I wouldn't want within a hundred miles of this offense. You think they're going to be able to come in and operate the run scheme we run out of? It's not just a Power I, turn around and hand it off to the back type of scheme.

And no, I don't think Cam or Johnson are better than Huntley or AB. I think all of these players suck, and none of them would have a material impact on the team.

End of day, for the fans, its time to man the fuck up and get real. If you have an MVP level QB, in a Roman scheme that doesn't have a lot of playmakers, and they get hurt, you're not going to win much. That's just the reality. I think the FO is perfectly fine in getting what they can get out of the players we have and moving on. If that means losing, so be it.

News flash to fans... it's OK to lose sometimes. There's another season coming right around the bend. There's franchises that haven't seen winning in decades. It's OK to lose a few games when you've created an offense around one player. The problem isn't "well we didn't do enough dumpster diving for backups". The problem is we created a system that's dependent on a single player to achieve what we want.

You can't fix that in December.

This is just so funny. You look at things from some constructed view of how things are in your head. I'm only taking into account the literal real life outcomes. This team was never going to win the SB. Everyone knew that. No one is sad that we're not going to win. You can't be let down by this team.

That being said even with actually one of the most limited QBs I've ever seen (a hurt Huntley) we are still competing in every game. It's not a lot to ask of your team to put a QB who's not hurt out there.

I mean for fucks sake if they didn't pretend like Lamar wasn't hurt they could have easily IRd him and started playing AB earlier. You'd be in a much more comfortable position now.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I squarely believe that Johnson or Newton would be better than Huntley. I put the other names because they exist. I thought it was kinda stupid to say there were literally no options.

But I'm serious about Johnson. I thought when Johnson played last year he was better than last year's Huntley. And this year's Huntley is far worse than last year's Huntley.

And before you type it, I'll put it this way... if you're saying the Ravens should have had the foresight to have Johnson as the backup over Huntley all year long, I feel as strongly about that being total bullshit as you feel about whether the Ravens did or didn't lie about injuries.

 

[UPennChem]

Just so we are clear on the timeline...
Josh Johnson has been on the 49ers active roster since December 4th. December 4th is also the day that Lamar got injured.

So in order for Johnson to have been a Raven, he would have needed to be on the Ravens roster before Lamar got injured.

Didn't know that obviously. Thanks for informing me

 

[drjohnnyfever]

I agree with everything you say here but I have 2 things to add:

1. People need to stop paying attention to Preston. I did years ago. He’s an opinionated beat writer, and a shit starter.

2. You’re suggesting that the Ravens knew from the beginning the severity of LJ injury (Potentially 8 week recovery). Would it have just been better for the team to shut him down then (IR), especially given the contract situation, and considering the possibility of further damage to the knee? Much of his value is in his running game. He needs two healthy knees to be great IMO. I mean Lamar is risking generational wealth here if he rushes back and re-injures, or further damages the knee. I really wouldn’t blame him if he has made that decision. On the other hand he holds some responsibility for this situation. He was offered a fair contract IMO, and chose to gamble on himself. So this is where he is.

Re. #2- they had to know. Just like they know before a guy gets carried off that and a cl was torn. They knew everything. Theres no reason to show their hand tho and this is where I believe Lamar. The plan was probably to try to rehab to be potentially ready if treatment went well. Both sides took a chance. But Preston's article nuked any common plans they had to delay. There was no harm in delaying and being coy with us and the press. Either way, it still gets fixed proper in the offseason.