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Lamar Jackson

Simba said:
On that last point... why even mention that you asked for a trade unless you aren't getting the interest you want? If he had a line of suitors, he could have just kept it under wraps. Going public with it feels like as clear of an indication as can be that he's trying to make something happen without having to put in the work himself to get it done.
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Mostly. It's just a change in strategy. Whatever strategy he thinks he's using, its clearly not working. Not even his own mother could honestly be like "yeah Lamar is playing this just right".
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Mostly. It's just a change in strategy. Whatever strategy he thinks he's using, its clearly not working. Not even his own mother could honestly be like "yeah Lamar is playing this just right".
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Agreed. Bad advice after bad advice for him. I generally support players doing what they think is best for them, but this is clearly one where an agent was desperately needed.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I mean... he could just, ya know, not be on Twitter. Does he really need it? Is Twitter making him $ somehow? Half the shit he tweets is in some cryptic language nobody can understand, and his own teammates are like "I don't even know what the fuck he is saying".

One easy way to ignore social media trolls is to not partake in social media. Or pay somebody to manage your profile for you, like 99% of rich people do.

If he was expecting positive feedback or support from people making $25K a year, living in their moms basement, and trolling Twitter on a Monday afternoon, where literally anybody with a job would be working, he's severely overestimated his audience.
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I agree. I steer very far from social media for the first part.

We don't even know if half his tweets are NFL related with the randomness though.

While I also don't like back on forths online, sometimes you have time. And it's not just twitter but TV and sports talk. From his point of view I'd guess he's thinking everyone has an opinion with no idea of what's actually happening.

I'd personally vacation where no one knew me and enjoy my time off.
 
Deebo813 said:
I mean not like he had acl tears or lingering hamstring issues or any of that other bs.. i think thats just a nice way of saying we arent interested
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So I think other GMs talking about his health concerns, sleeping habits, and nutrition are just the start. I wouldn’t be surprised the further away from this situation we get if we start hearing the rumors about him not being engaged in recovery efforts were true.
 
Speaking on the above video from Rap, the one thing that isn't adding up for me is this sense that the Ravens are willing to match nearly any offer that comes his way. Lamar signing an offer sheet almost assumes to me that he got close to his ask on the guarantees. Just feels weird to me that they'd be willing to match a deal instead of just giving it to him in the first place. I definitely understand the principle of resetting the market and things like that, but just seems like we're throwing a lot of risk out there IF we plan to match a mega deal anyways.
 
Simba said:
Speaking on the above video from Rap, the one thing that isn't adding up for me is this sense that the Ravens are willing to match nearly any offer that comes his way. Lamar signing an offer sheet almost assumes to me that he got close to his ask on the guarantees. Just feels weird to me that they'd be willing to match a deal instead of just giving it to him in the first place. I definitely understand the principle of resetting the market and things like that, but just seems like we're throwing a lot of risk out there IF we plan to match a mega deal anyways.
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Most of this don't make sense
 
Simba said:
Speaking on the above video from Rap, the one thing that isn't adding up for me is this sense that the Ravens are willing to match nearly any offer that comes his way. Lamar signing an offer sheet almost assumes to me that he got close to his ask on the guarantees. Just feels weird to me that they'd be willing to match a deal instead of just giving it to him in the first place. I definitely understand the principle of resetting the market and things like that, but just seems like we're throwing a lot of risk out there IF we plan to match a mega deal anyways.
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Why is it risky though?
Its just letting the market decide his value. If he can get a better deal, come bring it to us. If not, why are we negotiating against ourselves?

I think what's pretty clear from all of this is that NFL GM's have a much stronger understanding of what the market for players is compared to how players view things.
I think there's two things that are super strong possibilities:
1. The Ravens offer is, quite literally, the best offer Lamar is going to get in the next call it 6 months. I think any better offers he could would be after the 2023 season, and is predicated on what he does during the 2023 season.
2. The Ravens have a super strong sense of how other teams view Lamar, and what they're willing to pay. And they think the "range" of what that offer would be is well within the range of what the Ravens are willing to do. So they're comfortable letting somebody else set the price, because they're in the same range.

I think the only risk is an offer sheet that, while in totality, is something they'll live with, but maybe is of a potential "poison pill" deal that involves a large year 1 cap hit. Which makes perfect sense given our cap/FA strategy thus far.

Nothing the Ravens have done is indicative of a franchise that a) thinks they're trading Lamar anytime soon or has formulated an offseason strategy around losing Lamar or b) shows that they're concerned, in any way, that Lamar is going to get a Watson-like offer.

If they really thought they couldn't compete on price, they'd have traded him already. They'd have wanted it done and over with before FA, so that they could go on a spending spree.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Why is it risky though?
Its just letting the market decide his value. If he can get a better deal, come bring it to us. If not, why are we negotiating against ourselves?

I think what's pretty clear from all of this is that NFL GM's have a much stronger understanding of what the market for players is compared to how players view things.
I think there's two things that are super strong possibilities:
1. The Ravens offer is, quite literally, the best offer Lamar is going to get in the next call it 6 months. I think any better offers he could would be after the 2023 season, and is predicated on what he does during the 2023 season.
2. The Ravens have a super strong sense of how other teams view Lamar, and what they're willing to pay. And they think the "range" of what that offer would be is well within the range of what the Ravens are willing to do. So they're comfortable letting somebody else set the price, because they're in the same range.

I think the only risk is an offer sheet that, while in totality, is something they'll live with, but maybe is of a potential "poison pill" deal that involves a large year 1 cap hit. Which makes perfect sense given our cap/FA strategy thus far.

Nothing the Ravens have done is indicative of a franchise that a) thinks they're trading Lamar anytime soon or has formulated an offseason strategy around losing Lamar or b) shows that they're concerned, in any way, that Lamar is going to get a Watson-like offer.

If they really thought they couldn't compete on price, they'd have traded him already. They'd have wanted it done and over with before FA, so that they could go on a spending spree.
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To clarify, when I say risky, I don't mean losing Lamar. I just means from the optics and PR game. They've been lambasted by fans, players, and media alike. Not saying they should care fully, but the PR around the whole thing has certainly been questionable at best.

Don't get me wrong - I am also not for bidding up ourselves. Just feels weird that all of the reports/opinions are saying that we are willing to pay him a ton, yet aren't offering that now. Again, know it's fully business and they don't care much about perception, but still feels odd that they're willing to take this much heat instead of paying him. If you're comfortable with the number, then that should be it. Guess I just struggle to see how they feel comfortable paying that number only if someone else offers it to him first.

Fully agreed on the market aspect though - it's clearly not what Lamar wants it to be. Just questioning the reports on them willing to match nearly anything IF they're actually true.
 
Simba said:
To clarify, when I say risky, I don't mean losing Lamar. I just means from the optics and PR game. They've been lambasted by fans, players, and media alike. Not saying they should care fully, but the PR around the whole thing has certainly been questionable at best.

Don't get me wrong - I am also not for bidding up ourselves. Just feels weird that all of the reports/opinions are saying that we are willing to pay him a ton, yet aren't offering that now. Again, know it's fully business and they don't care much about perception, but still feels odd that they're willing to take this much heat instead of paying him. If you're comfortable with the number, then that should be it. Guess I just struggle to see how they feel comfortable paying that number only if someone else offers it to him first.

Fully agreed on the market aspect though - it's clearly not what Lamar wants it to be. Just questioning the reports on them willing to match nearly anything IF they're actually true.
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I think its "mostly" true. Like willing to match anything, i.e., what anybody is going to offer.

We know they'll go to $50M a year. We know they'll do short term and long term deals. And we know they're willing to do a large guarantee at signing, and we know they're willing to do rolling guarantees that would get to at least 70-80% of the contract value.

If by "anything" do they mean 5 years, $250M, fully guaranteed? No, I don't think they'll match that. But I think everybody in league circles and those reporting on it know that offer isn't coming from anybody, anyway.

Plus, lets be frank... nobody knows what "the number" is. I have 100% certainty that there's a ceiling on this thing. I know Steve knows what it is, and I know Eric knows what it is. And I'm not certainly that the public will ever know. But I think the ceiling for what we'll give him is higher than the ceiling of whatever anybody else is going to give him.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I think its "mostly" true. Like willing to match anything, i.e., what anybody is going to offer.

We know they'll go to $50M a year. We know they'll do short term and long term deals. And we know they're willing to do a large guarantee at signing, and we know they're willing to do rolling guarantees that would get to at least 70-80% of the contract value.

If by "anything" do they mean 5 years, $250M, fully guaranteed? No, I don't think they'll match that. But I think everybody in league circles and those reporting on it know that offer isn't coming from anybody, anyway.
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I can agree with that. I think your point in your last post probably sums it up best - GMs and teams have a much better idea of market value than the players do. Just hope Lamar sees that soon, for his own sake honestly.
 
Lol
 
Man, my wife and I literally just flew back into Virginia from Orlando, FL a few moments ago. When we landed in Atlanta to connect to our flight home, walking through the terminal and on my phone all I see in the media is that Lamar went on Twitter talking about a trade from Baltimore! I'll be damn! :mad:
 
Simba said:
Agreed. Bad advice after bad advice for him. I generally support players doing what they think is best for them, but this is clearly one where an agent was desperately needed.
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He was in way over his head on this one. Honestly I think he soured up at the beginning of 22 when he didn’t get what he wanted. He was a different person. Not the same Lamar that was always upbeat and all about the team. If anyone doubts now that he didn’t shut it down at the end of the season I don’t know what to tell ya.

This has been bizarre.
 
SaltyDog said:
He was in way over his head on this one. Honestly I think he soured up at the beginning of 22 when he didn’t get what he wanted. He was a different person. Not the same Lamar that was always upbeat and all about the team. If anyone doubts now that he didn’t shut it down at the end of the season I don’t know what to tell ya.

This has been bizarre.
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In hindsight, him skipping out on all of the optional offseason stuff was a sign. I know it's easy to write it off since a lot of guys across the league skip it, but we're talking about a guy who played the previous years with a youthful exuberance and always put in the extra effort even outside of team activities to get better. I think we all knew it was about money at the time but I don't think any of us thought it would lead here.
 
SaltyDog said:
He was in way over his head on this one. Honestly I think he soured up at the beginning of 22 when he didn’t get what he wanted. He was a different person. Not the same Lamar that was always upbeat and all about the team. If anyone doubts now that he didn’t shut it down at the end of the season I don’t know what to tell ya.

This has been bizarre.
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Yeah he definitely seemed to have a different way about him.
 
I wouldn't panic over this. Lamar wanting to get things done could be a benefit if he sees we have the best offer in the 1st place which is an overly generous one.
 
Simba said:
In hindsight, him skipping out on all of the optional offseason stuff was a sign. I know it's easy to write it off since a lot of guys across the league skip it, but we're talking about a guy who played the previous years with a youthful exuberance and always put in the extra effort even outside of team activities to get better. I think we all knew it was about money at the time but I don't think any of us thought it would lead here.
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Yeah I would have never believed this would get to this point. No agent and lots of bad advice has gotten him to this mess he is in right now. As hard as it is for me to feel sorry for a millionaire, I’m feeling a bit of sympathy for him right now. Lol
 
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