allblackraven
Hall of Famer
For what it's worth, just saw JJ Watt clip from today's McAfee show - out of 4 D lines still playing, he ranked the Ravens No. 1 and specifically mentioned Madubuike, wondering how it's possible he didn't make all pro.
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The Lamar, The Defence and The Special Teams
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
If you would like to dispute what I'm saying, I'd be more than happy to have a discussion, but just saying "the nuance" and not expanding isn't really adding anything to the discussion.
I'm not disputing that he clearly is playing his best football right now or that he's clearly improved. However, going from 54 pressures and 8.5 sacks in three years to 64 and 13 in one singular season isn't a natural progression- that's exponential increase in productivity well beyond the expected.
I'm attempting to probe and look at factors that contributed to this meteoric rise in stats outside of looking at every single sack and analyzing if they're impressive or not (I've looked at the first 11 and it's a mixed bag, in my opinion.)
Whether or not these advanced stats are friendly to Madubuike doesn't mean they're any less meaningful. They're important to examine and answer questions about.
Fortunately, I'm not DeCosta and I don't have to be the one to make the decision over whether this is a fluke and a 13.0 sack guy should be allowed to walk or not.
Well that's the neat thing- he was an All Pro.
correct. he was 2nd team all pro
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
One of those "pros"
If Madubuike played for another team last 4 years and had the identical career progression, would you bring him to Baltimore as a free agent, knowing that we again had one or two sacks on the season from a DT position? But we were stopping the run.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I’ve already expanded on this by talking about the circumstances surrounding his breakout season and where he stands among his peers, that was the nuance I was adding to the discussion, along with numbered rankings and differing ratings conflicting with your ratings with sources cited. I mean if you wanna keep ignoring every point that’s brought up that isn’t ESPN pass rush win rate or double team rate, that’s on you.
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Just rewatched, Watt did not understand how he wasn't 1st team all pro.
Can you remind me what the circumstances would be because I honestly think I've addressed everything, even if you're unhappy that I'm not agreeing and asking tough questions.
Are the Ravens in the same cap situation that they are now?
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I’m not unhappy at all. go back a page and re read if you’d like
I honestly think I addressed everything and you addressed literally zero of my questions from my longer post, so at this point, I'm just going to assume there's nothing more to contribute.
As an edit: I just went back in your post history and read every post to make sure I didn't miss anything and really what I saw boiled down to-
"He's got a lot of sacks and pressures. We can't let him walk. He's got great stats. Have to keep him."
The only nuance that I really saw was suggesting that Madubuike's interior pressure has led to a pocket that cannot be stepped up into and it has benefitted Clowney and Van Noy, which I think is a totally fair point. I think they work really well in tandem based on the sack footage I've seen, but it's a really fair point.
But again, I'm trying to look at why his stats took this meteoric, unprecedented rise and you're basically going, "I don't like it. Doesn't make Madubuike look good. I will ignore."
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allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Everything is the same but you can obviously find ways to make space, as we can now.
No, I would not sign him as an outside free agent if all else was equal. I don't think the sacrifices at other positions are worth retaining Madubuike.
We've seen what a bad WR, OL, and RB room looks like on offense in 2021. We've seen what bad cornerback rooms look like in 2014 and I'm sure several other seasons (2014 is just the most entrenched in my mind because I do believe that season was a Super Bowl worthy team without nobodies at cornerback.) We've seen poor outside linebacker play pretty much every year under Wink and how frustrating it was against good quarterbacks.
I think this is one of those scenarios where he's a player you'd normally love to keep, but if it means losing OBJ, Agholor, Duvernay, Queen, Clowney, Van Noy, Zeitler, Moses, Darby, Maulet... I'm just not about that. And to be clear- I expect several of those players have priced themselves out of Baltimore regardless of Madubuike being back or not, but I firmly believe Madubuike's contract would be a large barrier to finding viable replacements.
do they say this...
pretty sure they just say the player has to beat their block within 2.5 seconds
and jeff zrebiec has basically indicated the same thing a few weeks ago
the answer to that is usage
how he was used as part of the front
he was basically this good last year with a few less pass rush moves to win with
he is now getting the statistical reward for being as good as he was in 2022 as well as 2023
that's why im not worried about "regression", because i think he was almost this good last year and wasnt getting the sack numbers (partly because of how we used calais) - he's been my guy since before we drafted him, and so ive closely followed him through his seasons
he has a skillset that is rare in the NFL with his combination of power, burst, speed and bend - and that's tough to handle
yes he's been the beneficiary of some sacks as the contain player - but also worth noting that one of the biggest pass rushing blights for the ravens over the last umpteen years has been the inability to actually finish sacks
OBJ we save cap space by extending him or cutting him - he's going to be unaffected by Madubuike at all
agholor's cheap - will be unaffected by a Madubuike deal if they want him
Duvernay i think will be gone regardless
Queen has priced himself out of baltimore
Clowney will probably do what he's done the last several seasons which is wait out initial free agency (unless someone offers him a bag) and then see where he can get a 1 year deal later in the offseason - if he wants to remain a raven then im sure they can work out a 2-3 year deal for him that will keep his cap hit low in year 1 - either way, if OBJ's cut with a june-1st designation, it may be that the money we save there, helps pay for clowney later in the offseason
Van Noy may stick around, he may not, either way he's not going to be offered much by the ravens to stay im pretty sure
Zeitler i think will be moved on from with a big thank you for your service - he's 34 by the time free agency starts
Moses is still under contract for 2024...
Darby was a nice pickup and would be a nice re-signing if he's interested - he might not be as interested in March to be a backup as he was when Marlo was injured and he was still available in August...
Maulet's cheap - will be unaffected by a Madubuike deal if they want him
if we're just looking to fit Madubuike's tag then we can do that... Bowser will be cut, Ricard with a cut or an extension, Moses with a cut or an extension, Mekari with an extension - we probably dont want to have to do all this stuff just to fit him in with a tag, obviously the idea would be to get him on a long-term deal
I thought they mentioned the exact distance, but they don't. However, they mention it has to be a "certain distance" and accounts for situations where beating your block is inconsequential, like a roll out. From the sounds of it, they seem to be looking for a pressure event in 2.5 seconds.