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The 2024 Offseason Thread

drjohnnyfever

Pro Bowler
Re refs -

It's never going to be perfect, but there was an instance I think in the Houston game where we were marked as having gained a first down with Justice Hill catching a pass and getting forced out of bounds a couple yards beyond the sticks. The out of bounds stopped the clock and I think there might have been a short commercial or a short delay, but at some point before the next play went off they moved the the ball back and it was 3rd down. The explanation was that his foot was out before the first down marker and that they had seen it in the replay so they corrected the spot.

I had never seen that before, or don't recall seeing that in the past. Do they question the markings or evaluate them with each play? These are the calls that JH routinely challenges and loses. But this was different because the refs did it on their own. No challenge was made on either side. I could be wrong, but I just don't recall seeing booth evaluations of spots being made independently of the on field officials.

I wish they would do that routinely in games. I also wish that the challenges would go away and that the officials watching would just correct the guys on the field when appropriate. As for catches and PI's, those have become completely subjective and are maddening because each official has a different opinion of what constitutes a catch or a PI. Same with holding, really.

I almost long for the days where the players just played and only egregious fouls were called. All of this desire for 100% accuracy, complete safety, and detailed analysis of minutia makes it impossible to enjoy when they make errors. Even their retired chief ref disagrees with 50% of what they call.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Here are all of the guys that represent cap savings if cut...

Bowser seems like a given. Moses, Ricard, and maybe Mekari seem to be the biggest decisions that need to be made. Odell is also a given due to how they structured his revamped deal, unless they extend him of course. Stanley is the only other one that seems loosely plausible - it wouldn't shock me as much as it would some.



stanley decision will entirely come down to whether they think he can rehab and go again - looked good early in the year and then got rolled up on twice and wasnt the same after

if they think he can recover properly from those injuries then they'll re-up

if not i think they move on because otherwise we're paying the most to the worst guy on the OL
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
You've got Mekari who rotated with him for a good portion of the season. Not like the cupboard is bare.

I think generally we overthink it. The benefit here of course is that he'd be cut with a J1 regardless, so it's not like they have to cut him day 1. But if they think he's done and there's not much left there, they aren't going to hitch their wagons to him just because he's the 'only' option. If they think he's done or close to it, they'll move on and figure out the rest later. Would not be the first time.

i imagine they'll wait until after the draft regardless because there's no benefit to cutting him early unless they want to do a veteran guy a solid (but also then probably show their hand in the draft which they dont like to do)
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Could be getting worse IDK, but I think it’s always been bad to some extent. It’s just that now the technology has advanced to a point where the fans get 15 different angles of every play, and the refs only get one, and it’s at live bullet speed. The majority of plays cannot be challenged, which is where it all comes to the surface.

easy fixes that the nfl could do but hasnt/wont:

1) sky judge - allow a ref with the camera to help the guys live in-game if they've missed something obvious or egregious (like hey maybe pick this one up or you've missed a really egregious hold that affected the play) - not going back after the fact necessarily but can input when there's a flag and a discussion going on... the way that sometimes a guy calls down and helps them get the right call but actually have a referee as part of the crew in every game doing it

2) pay the refs full-time - part of the benefit of paying the refs to be full-time professionals and not semi-pros is that then you can invest in their training, you also incentivise more people to take up refereeing as it becomes an actual career path... like who wants to be a referee right now? all they get is criticism and complaints and they don't even get paid full-time to take all that on

3) put a chip in the ball - so easy and would make accurate spots so much easier especially on challenges and forward progress calls - why are we relying on eyes and chains...
 

Thezone27

Ravens Ring of Honor
easy fixes that the nfl could do but hasnt/wont:

1) sky judge - allow a ref with the camera to help the guys live in-game if they've missed something obvious or egregious (like hey maybe pick this one up or you've missed a really egregious hold that affected the play) - not going back after the fact necessarily but can input when there's a flag and a discussion going on... the way that sometimes a guy calls down and helps them get the right call but actually have a referee as part of the crew in every game doing it

2) pay the refs full-time - part of the benefit of paying the refs to be full-time professionals and not semi-pros is that then you can invest in their training, you also incentivise more people to take up refereeing as it becomes an actual career path... like who wants to be a referee right now? all they get is criticism and complaints and they don't even get paid full-time to take all that on

3) put a chip in the ball - so easy and would make accurate spots so much easier especially on challenges and forward progress calls - why are we relying on eyes and chains...
yeah if they let tony romo be ref then that would be a PI
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
stanley decision will entirely come down to whether they think he can rehab and go again - looked good early in the year and then got rolled up on twice and wasnt the same after

if they think he can recover properly from those injuries then they'll re-up

if not i think they move on because otherwise we're paying the most to the worst guy on the OL
Stanley is going to make 15 mil salary this year. He needs to take a pay cut of at least 4 mil which could be reclaimed thru incentives.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
easy fixes that the nfl could do but hasnt/wont:

1) sky judge - allow a ref with the camera to help the guys live in-game if they've missed something obvious or egregious (like hey maybe pick this one up or you've missed a really egregious hold that affected the play) - not going back after the fact necessarily but can input when there's a flag and a discussion going on... the way that sometimes a guy calls down and helps them get the right call but actually have a referee as part of the crew in every game doing it

2) pay the refs full-time - part of the benefit of paying the refs to be full-time professionals and not semi-pros is that then you can invest in their training, you also incentivise more people to take up refereeing as it becomes an actual career path... like who wants to be a referee right now? all they get is criticism and complaints and they don't even get paid full-time to take all that on

3) put a chip in the ball - so easy and would make accurate spots so much easier especially on challenges and forward progress calls - why are we relying on eyes and chains...
I thought they were doing the 1st 2 things. Ridiculous if they're not paying the refs full time!!

Dont really care for the idea of chips. Chips malfunction and doesnt factor when a body part is down.
 
easy fixes that the nfl could do but hasnt/wont:

1) sky judge - allow a ref with the camera to help the guys live in-game if they've missed something obvious or egregious (like hey maybe pick this one up or you've missed a really egregious hold that affected the play) - not going back after the fact necessarily but can input when there's a flag and a discussion going on... the way that sometimes a guy calls down and helps them get the right call but actually have a referee as part of the crew in every game doing it

2) pay the refs full-time - part of the benefit of paying the refs to be full-time professionals and not semi-pros is that then you can invest in their training, you also incentivise more people to take up refereeing as it becomes an actual career path... like who wants to be a referee right now? all they get is criticism and complaints and they don't even get paid full-time to take all that on

3) put a chip in the ball - so easy and would make accurate spots so much easier especially on challenges and forward progress calls - why are we relying on eyes and chains...
I think #2 is where you will see the most change in the near future. They have been talking about this for a while now, and it is a good place to start. Most officials have other jobs that take away from their ability to focus on this profession. They also need better organization and leadership, with a focus on training and evaluation.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I thought they were doing the 1st 2 things. Ridiculous if they're not paying the refs full time!!

Dont really care for the idea of chips. Chips malfunction and doesnt factor when a body part is down.

no but you can marry up the image with the chip to work out exactly where the spot should be
and doesnt necessarily need to be a chip but other sports use tracking technology in balls and other things and they do not malfunction - football's not special
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
no but you can marry up the image with the chip to work out exactly where the spot should be
and doesnt necessarily need to be a chip but other sports use tracking technology in balls and other things and they do not malfunction - football's not special
I'm thinking a camara in the 1st down sticks could be better like they have in the end zone pylons.
I am confident they restructure him and Marlo.
Not really interested in a restructure. Better to see if he can take a paycut first. Lower his 15 mil salary to 11. Not sure if he can get that on the market. Then try to use the other 4 mil in easily attainable incentives like 1 mil for 10 games started and an extra mil for every 2 games after. If starting 16 out of 17 games he would receive every penny. Gives us 4 mil in savings this year and defers that to next year and in 2025 he's very cuttable now at 20 mil in cap gain. This would just lower it to 16 mil instead which is still good. I like this a lot better than a restructure cuz then you giving more guaranteed cuz a restructure converts this years salary into a bonus that is guaranteed whereas a paycut with incentives is not guaranteed.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
that's far less reliable because you're relying on a camera that's probably far away from the ball...
and you still dont necessarily get to see when the body's up or down
Camera technology is pretty mad these days dude. The same way they transport skycam and sideline cam cables, they could transport the sticks camera cables, one on each side with a crew carrying the sticks. Built in analytics and line crossing detection and all you need is an Ethernet cable and bandwidth. Cameras have a lot of potential to save the on field product while not being invasive.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Camera technology is pretty mad these days dude. The same way they transport skycam and sideline cam cables, they could transport the sticks camera cables, one on each side with a crew carrying the sticks. Built in analytics and line crossing detection and all you need is an Ethernet cable and bandwidth. Cameras have a lot of potential to save the on field product while not being invasive.

But why bother doing that when you could just use some sort of basic ball tracking or Hawkeye system
 

ravenslord

Ravens Ring of Honor
Stanley and Humphrey are absolutely not worth the money they are getting .

If they don't agree to a paycut ,restructuring , it's time to let them walk.
 
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