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John Harbaugh

K

Kaysea

Practice Squad
allblackraven said:
Five and a bit years after the original "Fire Harbaugh" thread (now closed), I think this as good a time to reopen this conversation. Not going to to go into accolades "for everything he's done for the organisation", we all know what he did and what he did not do. Let's start here:


I'd like to go a step further and actually see the change. Lamar extended Harbaugh's Raven tenure once but it's time to give our QB a coach who isn't just a spectator if things clearly aren't working. We wasted at least 2 years of Lamar's career during his rookie contract. Let's not repeat the mistake.
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Harbaugh cemented his position off of a killer defense he had nothing to do with. After the Super bowl win he got rid of anyone who stood up to him .The next supper bowl Ray Lewis forced changes and took over the defense I believe and Harbaugh was told not to interfere. He's gotten credit for others work. They put everything into a quarterback that can't throw well running is his first instinct and when they take away the middle and pressure him he breaks down mentally. They stuck a knife in Joe Flacco rated 5th in play off wins we are on the road of Philadelphia Eagles and Atlanta Falcons . Running quarterbacks are running because they can't throw well and it falls apart in the playoffs because you have defensis that dhut it down.
 
JAAM

JAAM

Hall of Famer
Was Bernard Pollard right about Harbaugh this entire time? Lol
 
JO_75

JO_75

Hall of Famer
If they intended on drafting a new QB anyway in 2018, we should have just fired Harbaugh after 2017 and the humiliating 4th & 12 against the Bengals. With Lamar coming in, we really needed a fresh start in 2018 and it seemed that way until Lamar saved Harbaugh's job. Then he had the MVP season in 2019... buying John even more time. I'm glad to see that Lamar's play is now not enough to get around the bad coaching we have right now, he masked a lot of issues with coaching. Lamar if anything needs to lead the charge and quit playing for John to send a message to the front office.

Edit: The coaches hired in 2018 were terrible, so John by default was better. The only coaches worth hiring over the past couple years who I would take over John right now are Matt LaFluer(Packers in 2019), Dan Campbell(Lions in 2021) and Mike McDaniel(Dolphins in 2022).
 
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drjohnnyfever

drjohnnyfever

Pro Bowler
I think coaching matters a lot in two key areas, game planning and player improvement. How does John Harbaugh fit into those areas? Other than having a say in hiring the coaches, I'd say very little directly. I think he's a CEO type coach, where he's merely managing his managers. Telling them where he feels they need to be better in planning and improvement without really contributing to the planning or improvement directly - if that makes sense. Mind you, I have no idea if that's reality or not, it's just my impression from years of watching the same game over and over again where JH has that startled look on his face when his challenges are wrong or we're flagged for some penalty he doesn't understand or when a 4th and inches flea flicker fails. UGH. ^_^

I'd rather have a guy who is expert at OFF or DEF as HC. With Lamar, given our commitment to him, I'd give my eye teeth for a bona fide OC in the HC position. We're wasting Lamar by continuing to stick by the Trent Dilfer (who I love) of HC's. Having Gary Kubiak here for that one season in 2014 showed me JH just didn't get it. When Joe Flacco was given no supporting staff from 2015-18 and asked to run a dink and dunk OFF like the Pats with WR's with hands of stone - it was laughable. Joe's "injury" saved JH. He caught lightening in a bottle with Lamar, hitched his wagon, and took flight and credit for the ride Lamar took him on.

He should have been replaced before Lamar ever debuted or was drafted. But he's managed to hang on. Hopefully the time is coming for his departure. It's not that I don't like the guy, I think we can do better - much better - and we're wasting Lamar by keeping him around. If Monkin doesn't turn this OFF around, JH will be calling the likes of Marty Morningweg who John will tell us has a "newfound love for OFF and the game of football" after years on the beach. Good heavens. ^_^
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
drjohnnyfever said:
I think coaching matters a lot in two key areas, game planning and player improvement. How does John Harbaugh fit into those areas? Other than having a say in hiring the coaches, I'd say very little directly. I think he's a CEO type coach, where he's merely managing his managers. Telling them where he feels they need to be better in planning and improvement without really contributing to the planning or improvement directly - if that makes sense. Mind you, I have no idea if that's reality or not, it's just my impression from years of watching the same game over and over again where JH has that startled look on his face when his challenges are wrong or we're flagged for some penalty he doesn't understand or when a 4th and inches flea flicker fails. UGH. ^_^

I'd rather have a guy who is expert at OFF or DEF as HC. With Lamar, given our commitment to him, I'd give my eye teeth for a bona fide OC in the HC position. We're wasting Lamar by continuing to stick by the Trent Dilfer (who I love) of HC's. Having Gary Kubiak here for that one season in 2014 showed me JH just didn't get it. When Joe Flacco was given no supporting staff from 2015-18 and asked to run a dink and dunk OFF like the Pats with WR's with hands of stone - it was laughable. Joe's "injury" saved JH. He caught lightening in a bottle with Lamar, hitched his wagon, and took flight and credit for the ride Lamar took him on.

He should have been replaced before Lamar ever debuted or was drafted. But he's managed to hang on. Hopefully the time is coming for his departure. It's not that I don't like the guy, I think we can do better - much better - and we're wasting Lamar by keeping him around. If Monkin doesn't turn this OFF around, JH will be calling the likes of Marty Morningweg who John will tell us has a "newfound love for OFF and the game of football" after years on the beach. Good heavens. ^_^
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I agree that Harbaugh very much is a CEO type of coach. More than managing his guys, he's a culture setter and I think he's done a tremendous job of that in his time here. Outside of your small handful of detractors, most guys that have played here have nothing but good things to say, and I think a lot of that is Harbaugh.

With that being said, I am starting to question the value of a CEO type of coach, especially when the same mistakes are made over and over again. If we can't correct those, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage? If we can't stay mentally tough and finish games, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage?

I will continually maintain that Harbaugh is a great coach, and if we do let him go and he chooses to continue coaching, I think some young team is going to very happy with what Harbaugh does and can bring to a locker room like that. I just worry that the new era style of game has passed him by. Offense wins games now and we continually try to go with the old heads that have been around the block, and it's just not working. Every time I watch a KC or Miami or SF, it really shows just how far behind the times we are with our offensive system and consistency. And to me, that's on Harbaugh.
 
SepticeyePoe

SepticeyePoe

Hall of Famer
Simba said:
I agree that Harbaugh very much is a CEO type of coach. More than managing his guys, he's a culture setter and I think he's done a tremendous job of that in his time here. Outside of your small handful of detractors, most guys that have played here have nothing but good things to say, and I think a lot of that is Harbaugh.

With that being said, I am starting to question the value of a CEO type of coach, especially when the same mistakes are made over and over again. If we can't correct those, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage? If we can't stay mentally tough and finish games, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage?

I will continually maintain that Harbaugh is a great coach, and if we do let him go and he chooses to continue coaching, I think some young team is going to very happy with what Harbaugh does and can bring to a locker room like that. I just worry that the new era style of game has passed him by. Offense wins games now and we continually try to go with the old heads that have been around the block, and it's just not working. Every time I watch a KC or Miami or SF, it really shows just how far behind the times we are with our offensive system and consistency. And to me, that's on Harbaugh.
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He reminds me a bit of Buck Showalter's time with the O's. Good coach who did all that stuff with the culture, but also stubborn and stuck in the past
 
UPennChem

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
Simba said:
I agree that Harbaugh very much is a CEO type of coach. More than managing his guys, he's a culture setter and I think he's done a tremendous job of that in his time here. Outside of your small handful of detractors, most guys that have played here have nothing but good things to say, and I think a lot of that is Harbaugh.

With that being said, I am starting to question the value of a CEO type of coach, especially when the same mistakes are made over and over again. If we can't correct those, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage? If we can't stay mentally tough and finish games, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage?

I will continually maintain that Harbaugh is a great coach, and if we do let him go and he chooses to continue coaching, I think some young team is going to very happy with what Harbaugh does and can bring to a locker room like that. I just worry that the new era style of game has passed him by. Offense wins games now and we continually try to go with the old heads that have been around the block, and it's just not working. Every time I watch a KC or Miami or SF, it really shows just how far behind the times we are with our offensive system and consistency. And to me, that's on Harbaugh.
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Again, very well said. Harbs has been a good coach. For a long time he was a top 5 coach. But over time with the evolution of the league, he's probably only a top 16 coach in 2024. Better than the bunbs but just doesnt have the offensive stuff to win you a SB.

Like the guy a lot. Loved having here honestly. It's just his skillset doesn't win a SB in 2024 and beyond and therefore his time is up. No hars feelings.
 
allblackraven

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
UPennChem said:
Again, very well said. Harbs has been a good coach. For a long time he was a top 5 coach. But over time with the evolution of the league, he's probably only a top 16 coach in 2024. Better than the bunbs but just doesnt have the offensive stuff to win you a SB.

Like the guy a lot. Loved having here honestly. It's just his skillset doesn't win a SB in 2024 and beyond and therefore his time is up. No hars feelings.
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His skillset did not win a lot between 2013 and 2023 either. In 2012 I'd argue Ray Lewis and other veteran players did a better job of coaching than John and Flacco played out of his mind playoffs.

Appart from Jerry Rosburg, could not pick a right co-ordinator to save his life. Lucked out with traitor Kubiak for one season. Even Steve saw that the time has come 5 years ago but then came Lamar.
 
JO_75

JO_75

Hall of Famer
So we going to talk about how the Bills kept the ball in the hands of Josh Allen and trusted him to make a play on 4th & 2, which ended up being a Touchdown. Then watching the Bills defense actually stop the Chiefs, and make plays, the game winning interception, etc. It's so easy for me watching other games and go, if that was us, the complete opposite would have happened, or whatever. This on the same day, Harbaugh's coaching issues once again were too much for Lamar to overcome, even though Lamar played terrible there was a lot on the coaching that could have swayed this game our way against Pittsburgh.

We keep seeing the same thing every year with Harbaugh where the offense disappears in crucial games, when will Biscotti finally take notice and give Lamar a good coaching staff?
 
Grim

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
JO_75 said:
So we going to talk about how the Bills kept the ball in the hands of Josh Allen and trusted him to make a play on 4th & 2, which ended up being a Touchdown. Then watching the Bills defense actually stop the Chiefs, and make plays, the game winning interception, etc. It's so easy for me watching other games and go, if that was us, the complete opposite would have happened, or whatever. This on the same day, Harbaugh's coaching issues once again were too much for Lamar to overcome, even though Lamar played terrible there was a lot on the coaching that could have swayed this game our way against Pittsburgh.

We keep seeing the same thing every year with Harbaugh where the offense disappears in crucial games, when will Biscotti finally take notice and give Lamar a good coaching staff?
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What did Harbaugh do today? I mean, yeah, his team is heavily penalized but I didn’t see any boneheaded decisions from him specifically.
 
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