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End of the Bar Does Not Care, John Harbaugh

Was Bernard Pollard right about Harbaugh this entire time? Lol
 
If they intended on drafting a new QB anyway in 2018, we should have just fired Harbaugh after 2017 and the humiliating 4th & 12 against the Bengals. With Lamar coming in, we really needed a fresh start in 2018 and it seemed that way until Lamar saved Harbaugh's job. Then he had the MVP season in 2019... buying John even more time. I'm glad to see that Lamar's play is now not enough to get around the bad coaching we have right now, he masked a lot of issues with coaching. Lamar if anything needs to lead the charge and quit playing for John to send a message to the front office.

Edit: The coaches hired in 2018 were terrible, so John by default was better. The only coaches worth hiring over the past couple years who I would take over John right now are Matt LaFluer(Packers in 2019), Dan Campbell(Lions in 2021) and Mike McDaniel(Dolphins in 2022).
 
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I think coaching matters a lot in two key areas, game planning and player improvement. How does John Harbaugh fit into those areas? Other than having a say in hiring the coaches, I'd say very little directly. I think he's a CEO type coach, where he's merely managing his managers. Telling them where he feels they need to be better in planning and improvement without really contributing to the planning or improvement directly - if that makes sense. Mind you, I have no idea if that's reality or not, it's just my impression from years of watching the same game over and over again where JH has that startled look on his face when his challenges are wrong or we're flagged for some penalty he doesn't understand or when a 4th and inches flea flicker fails. UGH. :)

I'd rather have a guy who is expert at OFF or DEF as HC. With Lamar, given our commitment to him, I'd give my eye teeth for a bona fide OC in the HC position. We're wasting Lamar by continuing to stick by the Trent Dilfer (who I love) of HC's. Having Gary Kubiak here for that one season in 2014 showed me JH just didn't get it. When Joe Flacco was given no supporting staff from 2015-18 and asked to run a dink and dunk OFF like the Pats with WR's with hands of stone - it was laughable. Joe's "injury" saved JH. He caught lightening in a bottle with Lamar, hitched his wagon, and took flight and credit for the ride Lamar took him on.

He should have been replaced before Lamar ever debuted or was drafted. But he's managed to hang on. Hopefully the time is coming for his departure. It's not that I don't like the guy, I think we can do better - much better - and we're wasting Lamar by keeping him around. If Monkin doesn't turn this OFF around, JH will be calling the likes of Marty Morningweg who John will tell us has a "newfound love for OFF and the game of football" after years on the beach. Good heavens. :)
 
drjohnnyfever said:
I think coaching matters a lot in two key areas, game planning and player improvement. How does John Harbaugh fit into those areas? Other than having a say in hiring the coaches, I'd say very little directly. I think he's a CEO type coach, where he's merely managing his managers. Telling them where he feels they need to be better in planning and improvement without really contributing to the planning or improvement directly - if that makes sense. Mind you, I have no idea if that's reality or not, it's just my impression from years of watching the same game over and over again where JH has that startled look on his face when his challenges are wrong or we're flagged for some penalty he doesn't understand or when a 4th and inches flea flicker fails. UGH. ^_^

I'd rather have a guy who is expert at OFF or DEF as HC. With Lamar, given our commitment to him, I'd give my eye teeth for a bona fide OC in the HC position. We're wasting Lamar by continuing to stick by the Trent Dilfer (who I love) of HC's. Having Gary Kubiak here for that one season in 2014 showed me JH just didn't get it. When Joe Flacco was given no supporting staff from 2015-18 and asked to run a dink and dunk OFF like the Pats with WR's with hands of stone - it was laughable. Joe's "injury" saved JH. He caught lightening in a bottle with Lamar, hitched his wagon, and took flight and credit for the ride Lamar took him on.

He should have been replaced before Lamar ever debuted or was drafted. But he's managed to hang on. Hopefully the time is coming for his departure. It's not that I don't like the guy, I think we can do better - much better - and we're wasting Lamar by keeping him around. If Monkin doesn't turn this OFF around, JH will be calling the likes of Marty Morningweg who John will tell us has a "newfound love for OFF and the game of football" after years on the beach. Good heavens. ^_^
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I agree that Harbaugh very much is a CEO type of coach. More than managing his guys, he's a culture setter and I think he's done a tremendous job of that in his time here. Outside of your small handful of detractors, most guys that have played here have nothing but good things to say, and I think a lot of that is Harbaugh.

With that being said, I am starting to question the value of a CEO type of coach, especially when the same mistakes are made over and over again. If we can't correct those, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage? If we can't stay mentally tough and finish games, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage?

I will continually maintain that Harbaugh is a great coach, and if we do let him go and he chooses to continue coaching, I think some young team is going to very happy with what Harbaugh does and can bring to a locker room like that. I just worry that the new era style of game has passed him by. Offense wins games now and we continually try to go with the old heads that have been around the block, and it's just not working. Every time I watch a KC or Miami or SF, it really shows just how far behind the times we are with our offensive system and consistency. And to me, that's on Harbaugh.
 
Simba said:
I agree that Harbaugh very much is a CEO type of coach. More than managing his guys, he's a culture setter and I think he's done a tremendous job of that in his time here. Outside of your small handful of detractors, most guys that have played here have nothing but good things to say, and I think a lot of that is Harbaugh.

With that being said, I am starting to question the value of a CEO type of coach, especially when the same mistakes are made over and over again. If we can't correct those, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage? If we can't stay mentally tough and finish games, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage?

I will continually maintain that Harbaugh is a great coach, and if we do let him go and he chooses to continue coaching, I think some young team is going to very happy with what Harbaugh does and can bring to a locker room like that. I just worry that the new era style of game has passed him by. Offense wins games now and we continually try to go with the old heads that have been around the block, and it's just not working. Every time I watch a KC or Miami or SF, it really shows just how far behind the times we are with our offensive system and consistency. And to me, that's on Harbaugh.
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He reminds me a bit of Buck Showalter's time with the O's. Good coach who did all that stuff with the culture, but also stubborn and stuck in the past
 
Simba said:
I agree that Harbaugh very much is a CEO type of coach. More than managing his guys, he's a culture setter and I think he's done a tremendous job of that in his time here. Outside of your small handful of detractors, most guys that have played here have nothing but good things to say, and I think a lot of that is Harbaugh.

With that being said, I am starting to question the value of a CEO type of coach, especially when the same mistakes are made over and over again. If we can't correct those, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage? If we can't stay mentally tough and finish games, then what value is Harbaugh bringing at this stage?

I will continually maintain that Harbaugh is a great coach, and if we do let him go and he chooses to continue coaching, I think some young team is going to very happy with what Harbaugh does and can bring to a locker room like that. I just worry that the new era style of game has passed him by. Offense wins games now and we continually try to go with the old heads that have been around the block, and it's just not working. Every time I watch a KC or Miami or SF, it really shows just how far behind the times we are with our offensive system and consistency. And to me, that's on Harbaugh.
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Again, very well said. Harbs has been a good coach. For a long time he was a top 5 coach. But over time with the evolution of the league, he's probably only a top 16 coach in 2024. Better than the bunbs but just doesnt have the offensive stuff to win you a SB.

Like the guy a lot. Loved having here honestly. It's just his skillset doesn't win a SB in 2024 and beyond and therefore his time is up. No hars feelings.
 
UPennChem said:
Again, very well said. Harbs has been a good coach. For a long time he was a top 5 coach. But over time with the evolution of the league, he's probably only a top 16 coach in 2024. Better than the bunbs but just doesnt have the offensive stuff to win you a SB.

Like the guy a lot. Loved having here honestly. It's just his skillset doesn't win a SB in 2024 and beyond and therefore his time is up. No hars feelings.
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His skillset did not win a lot between 2013 and 2023 either. In 2012 I'd argue Ray Lewis and other veteran players did a better job of coaching than John and Flacco played out of his mind playoffs.

Appart from Jerry Rosburg, could not pick a right co-ordinator to save his life. Lucked out with traitor Kubiak for one season. Even Steve saw that the time has come 5 years ago but then came Lamar.
 
So we going to talk about how the Bills kept the ball in the hands of Josh Allen and trusted him to make a play on 4th & 2, which ended up being a Touchdown. Then watching the Bills defense actually stop the Chiefs, and make plays, the game winning interception, etc. It's so easy for me watching other games and go, if that was us, the complete opposite would have happened, or whatever. This on the same day, Harbaugh's coaching issues once again were too much for Lamar to overcome, even though Lamar played terrible there was a lot on the coaching that could have swayed this game our way against Pittsburgh.

We keep seeing the same thing every year with Harbaugh where the offense disappears in crucial games, when will Biscotti finally take notice and give Lamar a good coaching staff?
 
JO_75 said:
So we going to talk about how the Bills kept the ball in the hands of Josh Allen and trusted him to make a play on 4th & 2, which ended up being a Touchdown. Then watching the Bills defense actually stop the Chiefs, and make plays, the game winning interception, etc. It's so easy for me watching other games and go, if that was us, the complete opposite would have happened, or whatever. This on the same day, Harbaugh's coaching issues once again were too much for Lamar to overcome, even though Lamar played terrible there was a lot on the coaching that could have swayed this game our way against Pittsburgh.

We keep seeing the same thing every year with Harbaugh where the offense disappears in crucial games, when will Biscotti finally take notice and give Lamar a good coaching staff?
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What did Harbaugh do today? I mean, yeah, his team is heavily penalized but I didn’t see any boneheaded decisions from him specifically.
 
Here's the thing. John Harbaugh doesn't do much. His strength is keeping people happy and spirits high. We usually have a strong lockerroom and he's to laud for that. He has been pretty important in Ravens culture certainly.

With that being said, he is not a guy really contributing to offense, defense, or STs. The team has been mentally week for nearly a decade or maybe more depending on how you see it. We've had historically bad choke jobs for years. We've had historically bad penalties multiple times under his tenure. He's been comically bad with challenges and time management. Lamar has called the Chiefs their boogeyman under his tenure. There is a lack of killer instinct and true confidence in these teams. It's why we fold despite being better than others. So many times the game was over before we started.

The fact of the matter is although JH will give you a stable team and lockeroom, he can't win you a SB. If you're serious about that you need to move on. If you want to be "competitive" and have some smiles on faces, he's totally your guy.
 
@Simba Hey can you ask your source if he's heard anything about coaching changes? Is Harbaugh secretly on the hot seat? Orr? Our Special Teams Coach? Is Harbaugh potentially getting an extension beyond 2025? These losses eventually pile up and the amount of blown 4th quarter leads, the penalties, being so undisciplined, EVERY WEEK, EVERY YEAR.

Someone in the Castle has to be paying attention to this, is EDC on a hot seat for the way he built the team that was one game from the Super Bowl last year?
 
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