The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[rossihunter2]

Such as what?

talking about the invasion of immigrants and hispanics

 

[Tank]

Sorry for the loss of your friend. God bless!

Thanks brother. Vickie wasn’t a close friend but I had known her for about 15 years. She was a really nice person who seemed to always keep a smile. God bless her, her husband and family.

 

[JO_75]

Race matters if the shooter says he is motivated by it........

We don't need the media to tell us that.

Yeah he literally wrote about it in his manifesto - which had a lot of phrases that sounded a lot like trump

Clearly in this situation, yes it matters but I'm talking more so with the media driving the divide where headlines openly say the shooter was a white male every time the shooter is white. Yet other races aren't mentioned in headlines and sometimes not even the article itself but the media jumps all over it with a white person. That's more what I meant, not this situation where this guy was racially motivated to kill people but more so how the media reports them only adding to the divide in this country.

 

[rossihunter2]

Clearly in this situation, yes it matters but I'm talking more so with the media driving the divide where headlines openly say the shooter was a white male every time the shooter is white. Yet other races aren't mentioned in headlines and sometimes not even the article itself but the media jumps all over it with a white person. That's more what I meant, not this situation where this guy was racially motivated to kill people but more so how the media reports them only adding to the divide in this country.

the problem is there's a general trend of a specific kind of ideology (which also because of the ideology has a specific kind of perpetrator) that brings together so many of these massacres which means that the race (and profile) of a lot of these killers is important to the framing of the issue...

and i think honestly other races do get mentioned a lot in headlines where their race is irrelevant to the crime or issue but in these cases i think the profile and ideology - which go hand in hand - is important

for a long time lots of people have been calling these shooters lone wolves but at what point do vast swathes of american politicians finally acknowledge that these lone wolves arent alone at all and that they are part of a larger pack

 

[JO_75]

I see the ban guns police are out in full force. Let's just ban guns and not mention the fact that armed citizens have prevented shootings from happening in the first place.

 

[Ludy51]

Didn’t the shooter also say that he held those views long before Trump?

 

[balfan23]

I mean other countries have mental health issues

It’s a common refrain from conservative (and other) voices in America post-mass shooting and it’s frankly a ridiculous point because inevitably it just scapegoats people with health issues for the real issue at the heart of the majority of these shootings which is white supremacy and the way it brainwashes a particular type of vulnerable individual and on a consistent basis turns them into mass murderers based on that ideology - there are 2 clear issues in the vast majority of these incidents: guns and white supremacy and you’re current leaders seem to want to do nothing about either of these problems beyond the usual empty thoughts and prayers

You might not want trump to build the wall because it’ll trap you in a country full of terrorists

I mean other countries have mental health issues ... but tend to not let any citizen without criminal record to buy assault weapons. I don't think that is a refrain from too many conservative (or should I say far right) voices.

Are you saying mental health AND access to weapons of extreme deadly force is not a problem? Not sure why you only decided to latch on to only half of my comment.

While white supremacy has played a role in some incidents, certainly many others have been psychotics with an axe to grind and a machine gun to unleash. Certainly, harsh rhetoric seems to have played a role in some of what we are seeing and needs to be stopped - first by cutting off its head in 2020 (just wish that some party (any party) would offer up someone worth voting for ... but I digress).

... and back to my original point. Doing nothing is not an option.

 

[Willbacker]

Didn’t the shooter also say that he held those views long before Trump?

Now lets see who actually reports that.

 

[JO_75]

So apparently the Ohio Shooter has just been a terrible person who wanted to commit crimes since High School. Classmates have come out and said that he was suspended for having a "Hit List" and "Rape List". Police had been aware of it and even alerted a female student that she was on the rape list. Since high school suspensions aren't on background checks, his background check came back clean allowing him to buy the weapon he used in the shooting.

The "Rape List" and "Hit List", the investigation by the police all happened back in 2012. 2012, the year when we had a Democratic President who was serving his second term. So while the hysteria of everything being racial division by any means when it comes to the media, this kid was wanting to harm people since even when Obama was in office.

https://news.yahoo.com/classmates-ohio-shooter-kept-hit-033305480.html

 

[JO_75]

Let's see how much the left try to bury this little detail about the Ohio shooter. They use the phrase White Sumpremaicst as a way to discredit the right and bash Trump. Now what happens when the shoe is on the other foot? The Ohio shooter was a "Pro Satan leftist" who was in support of Elizabeth Warren.

The Ohio gunman described himself on social media as a pro-Satan “leftist” who wanted Joe Biden’s generation to die off, hated President Trump and law enforcement, and hoped to vote for Sen. Elizabeth Warren for president.

“I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding,” he wrote in one tweet, according to Heavy.com.

When noting that alt-right demonstrators were marching in Charlottesville, a rally that later ended in the death of Heather Heyer, he exhorted his followers: “Kill every fascist.”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/4/connor-betts-ohio-gunman-was-elizabeth-warren-supp/

 

[gtalk12]

Now lets see who actually reports that.

Goes back to what I said, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that our leader empowers those who have felt strongly towards others.


I keep on harping on that point. Remember, I'm not calling him racist.

 

[gtalk12]

Let's see how much the left try to bury this little detail about the Ohio shooter. They use the phrase White Sumpremaicst as a way to discredit the right and bash Trump. Now what happens when the shoe is on the other foot? The Ohio shooter was a "Pro Satan leftist" who was in support of Elizabeth Warren.




https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/4/connor-betts-ohio-gunman-was-elizabeth-warren-supp/

Extremism is met with extremism.

 

[Willbacker]

Goes back to what I said, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that our leader empowers those who have felt strongly towards others.


I keep on harping on that point. Remember, I'm not calling him racist.

Anti talk also empowers.

 

[gtalk12]

Anti talk also empowers.

Now you're talking.

Extremism when unchecked, will GET checked by Extremism. A couple of losers decide White is always right and now you have another group that says "You thinking different is dangerous so shut up or I'll hurt you"


Sorry to tell you boys but the issue this country is facing begins and ends with the spectacle that has become American Politics. BOTH parties acting like children while extreme dickheads that can't move or think for themselves blindly follow (or what they think is following)

 

[Willbacker]

Now you're talking.

Extremism when unchecked, will GET checked by Extremism. A couple of losers decide White is always right and now you have another group that says "You thinking different is dangerous so shut up or I'll hurt you"


Sorry to tell you boys but the issue this country is facing begins and ends with the spectacle that has become American Politics. BOTH parties acting like children while extreme dickheads that can't move or think for themselves blindly follow (or what they think is following)

Thing is that you don't realize is Trump is the counter puncher. Case in point Cummings extremism was met with Trumps extremism.Maybe not always done properly but that's usually the way it goes.

You do realize most of these mass shooters were anti trumpers. The El Paso guy even stated his feelings were that way even before Trump.

 

[gtalk12]

Thing is that you don't realize is Trump is the counter puncher. Case in point Cummings extremism was met with Trumps extremism.Maybe not always done properly but that's usually the way it goes.

You do realize most of these mass shooters were anti trumpers. The El Paso guy even stated his feelings were that way even before Trump.

You're always going to chime in defending one side which is annoying for me because I am blaming both sides. You keep using my example by saying Trump is the counter puncher here. This isn't a game or a joke. No, the president should not be doing that. Somebody has to be an adult, SOMEBODY.

There is a manifesto that was posted before the shooting, authorities think it may be him. IF, IF that is the case, then in that manifesto it clearly states his reasoning which started from reading the book The Great Replacement which is "Right Wing Alt Right Conspiracy"

He also goes on to blame both parties. Literally. He blames the right for the anti-immigration rhetoric and the left for using empty promises to lure immigrants to vote for them knowing that we will be able to over-take the Republicans.


If he really did write this, then he is blaming both sides.


Will, wake the fuck up. We aren't really being respectful to our neighbors and weak minded individuals are using it as fuel to do these shootings. We must take accountability for what WE do and stop fighting and blaming each to other.

 

[gtalk12]

He followed guys like Steven Crowder (funny guy, but he is antagonistic to the soft liberal left). Everything out of his mouth is left this and liberal that and how they are trying to ruin the country. He also follows that weirdo Paul Watson who loves calling men soyboys when he is built like a teenage girl. He has also tweeted his support for Trump.

Again, I am not saying Trump is racist. At all. He says things that these alt right guys hold on to and run with. Though I would exclude Crowder from that Alt-Right shit.

 

[52520Andrew]

The problem isn't some particular person in office, it is the media, with social media playing a big part of that. Both sides. And the problem isn't mental illness, it is radicalization and fear. I've talked to plenty of people on the left and the right(further in both directions than anyone here) and the only thing both sides do is complain about the other. They are both right. We don't need a counter-puncher, we just had two people throw some counter-punches. 30+ people are now dead because of it. It all just adds to the feedback cycle of violence we are currently in. And with the way the media on both sides tries to blame each other, this doesn't look like it is getting any better.

 

[Willbacker]

You're always going to chime in defending one side which is annoying for me because I am blaming both sides. You keep using my example by saying Trump is the counter puncher here. This isn't a game or a joke. No, the president should not be doing that. Somebody has to be an adult, SOMEBODY.

There is a manifesto that was posted before the shooting, authorities think it may be him. IF, IF that is the case, then in that manifesto it clearly states his reasoning which started from reading the book The Great Replacement which is "Right Wing Alt Right Conspiracy"

He also goes on to blame both parties. Literally. He blames the right for the anti-immigration rhetoric and the left for using empty promises to lure immigrants to vote for them knowing that we will be able to over-take the Republicans.


If he really did write this, then he is blaming both sides.


Will, wake the [profanity deleted] up. We aren't really being respectful to our neighbors and weak minded individuals are using it as fuel to do these shootings. We must take accountability for what WE do and stop fighting and blaming each to other.

Oh I hear you man believe me. Just cuz something is alt right that is only just in name but when you listen to the media they connect Trump to them and totally blame him which puts fodder in a lot of peoples heads. See I believe the left puts a lot of things into these whackos heads and they're also constantly being put on a pedestal especially by the media. Not saying Trump is completely innocent of saying stupid things thats for sure. Maybe not the best terminology is used sometimes but they're facts. We can touch this situation in El Paso where he has said multiple times there is an invasion. Not a "Hispanic Invasion" like I've seen in some left hand news (shows you I read it) but when a border gets overrun its actually the proper term. But it gets spun................just like the fine people comment. Bottomline theres a lot of blame to go around and yes its both sides but imo only its more on the left. Just the way I see it.

Now where you're 100% correct is we need to come together to make sensible laws on both immigration and stricter gun laws. Imo Congress needs to get together to make a combo package and lets get this shit done. I've already said several times my immigration ideas but I'm in for some better gun laws and then fuckin enforce them. Tired of this slap on the wrist stuff. 30 day mandatory checks (this should closely involve mental health issues and juvenile actions should also be looked at), no private sales of semi action pistols or rifles until they're federally mandated and if this is not followed its a felony for the seller if involved in a crime, gun safety classes must be taken for ownership and I'm talking only 1 or 2 day classes nothing major and all this just for a start. I could think of more later possibly.

One thing I wish we could really do is make social media and the hate groups that influence bad actions somehow be accessories to these crimes but with free speech I right now cant think of anything but dammit they should have to answer.

 

[Willbacker]

The problem isn't some particular person in office, it is the media, with social media playing a big part of that. Both sides. And the problem isn't mental illness, it is radicalization and fear. I've talked to plenty of people on the left and the right(further in both directions than anyone here) and the only thing both sides do is complain about the other. They are both right. We don't need a counter-puncher, we just had two people throw some counter-punches. 30+ people are now dead because of it. It all just adds to the feedback cycle of violence we are currently in. And with the way the media on both sides tries to blame each other, this doesn't look like it is getting any better.

I just wrote about the social media and you're right it can be a bad influence. Just wish social media was more like this forum where we actually try to discuss ideas. See I didn't get into forums until I guess around 7 yrs ago and never had a chance to do stuff like this where I can have good sensible discussions with people with different backgrounds and ideas than myself. I cherish talking to guys like yourself and everybody else on this board but man sometimes I really wonder if social media is actual progress or if its destructive. Just some of the things I read sometimes.