The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[Willbacker]

J.E.D.K.H.

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[Tank]

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Jeffrey Epstein didn’t kill himself

 

[Dom McRaven]

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Jeffrey Epstein didn’t kill himself

WE HAVE A WINNER!

 

[RavensMania]

Unfortunately most people who support Democrats are brainwashed at this point. They no longer think on their own or form their own opinion after listening to arguments on both sides. If the Dems tell them to think one way, that's the way they are going to think. It sucks that we've essentially lost individuality in this country and have now molded people into thinking the same way, feeling the same way, having the same opinions, etc.

If you happen to think differently or have a different opinion then your wrong no matter what because they think their opinion is the only ones that matter.

I'm not democrate or republican, but I disagree with your first point. It works both ways, whether you are democrat or republican. You can use this as a blanket statement for either one of the parties that you support, but it works for all parties.

 

[JO_75]

Jeffrey Epstein didn’t kill himself

Trump needs to launch a secret investigation so that the Dems don't have a clue and won't have chance of hiding him again. Find him then bring him out for a press conference where he spills the beans and gives Trump the ultimate victory before the election next year.

 

[52520Andrew]

Let me tell you something since you seem to be so blind behind your Trump hating sunglasses. If anybody is acting like little whiny babies its the Democrats who cant seem to figger out they lost the election . Wanting to change the electoral college. Needing safe spaces and couldn't get out of bed after the election. Endless hoaxes and investigations. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Even you yourself can only try to find negative things about Trump and post them and say "Look at how offensive he is". What you call crybabying from Trump is him fighting back against constant negative protocol.

Ok about the fake. What is fake? Him lowering taxes for middle class? Helping vets with VA choice? Constantly backing our lawmen? Taking on China? Moving the American embassy to Jerusalem? Taking on illegal immigration? Everything he said on the campaign trail he has tried to do. Succeded in some. Hasn't been able to gain traction on others cuz of Congress ( a lot cuz of Paul Ryan ). When it comes to Israel and China a bunch of presidents before Trump said they was gonna do these things. They haven't.

When it comes to down the middle Trump is! Lets point out on the Repub side some of these supposedly down the middle guys. McCain gave the glorious I'm gonna be the last guy to vote on the skinny health care reform plan then waddled up and gave a thumbs down even tho while Obama was in office he was all for repealing Obamacare. Yeah strong man when he knew it was gonna be vetoed anyways but different tune when somebody would sign it. That's fake!! Did he do that for the people or did he do it just to stick it to Trump? Hiow bout Mitt Romney. Always undermining and making a fake twitter account to bash Trump bigtime under disguise. Trump backed hin during his campaign and then was given the cold shoulder. Pretty despicable Pierre Delecto. And Paul Ryan ( Mr Open Borders) who never seemed to want to bring nothing up in the house when it came to anything about illegal immigration. Just paid politicians who didn't do jackshit. All promises. No action!!!

Trump's approval rating are in the mid 40's. Congress is around 13%.

If you constantly want to keep on saying I have to bring up the Dems/left I have to. Look at them. Green New Deal. Medicare for All including illegals. UBI. That's just the tip again. Everything there is more govt control. That's just a fact. Not saying you're for that stuff. Just the reason I bring them up.

Now you tell me the fake stuff about Trump since you're claiming he's a leftist but to me has also shown conservative values which sounds down the middle to me.

You keep trying to find any way you can to out me as this fake closet leftist. Frankly I am jealous that people like you can go on with your lives thinking there is anyone in congress or the white house that gives a rat's ass about this country and the people living in it. Talk about safe spaces, that is lala land. Trump is fighting fire with fire and that is only making things worse in regards to his tweets. Being an adult would be 1000x more effective. As I have stated countless times. But lets go through your claims of things he did showing he isn't fake.

The guy lowers taxes while we have a huge deficit.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/3230

Tariffs are one area I actually give him some credit, all the talk about how they are great for the country is silly though. And calling for a federal funds rate of 0 while the economy is decent is just stupid.

Moving an embassy doesn't do shit for me lol

We've talked immigration quite a bit, a wall by itself isn't solving things. But on that subject, declaring a national emergency to get wall money is something the Republican party will regret doing. Just like how the democrats regret invoking the nuclear option in the senate.

As for promises he made, he also said he wouldn't have time for the golf course. There sure must be a lot of fake pictures of him on golf courses floating around out there.

As for other Republicans and congress in general, refer to the second sentence of my post. An approval rating in the 40s sure isn't good though.

But you know the funny thing? Those people on Fox and conservative talk radio were all gung ho about McCain and Romney at one point. They were also all around during the Clinton days when you voted for Perot. They were supporting guys with no hesitation who you hated. If Trump actually cared about this country, he would never have the support of those people.

I don't think Trump is a leftist. But he does act like one with all the complaining about congress and the media. Step into a time machine to 5 years ago and people would indeed mistake you for a democrat with that stuff.

Also since you didn't bring it up, yes I know Hillary started the whole birtherism thing, even that isn't an original idea by Trump. He stooped to the level of Hillary.


I have been going through some family stuff these past couple weeks and honestly have had a change in heart in regards to this stuff. Life is too short and while the talk that Trump is this grand savior of the country is just silly to me, I'd rather not be the guy to take that away from someone at this point. It isn't like I think the democrats are going to roll out anyone decent and even if they did have someone decent, a candidate that cares about the people would never make it through the primaries. So if that is what you want to think then fine. I honestly even considered taking out my responses to the points in your post but frankly we both know it won't change your mind anyways and I wanted to at least let you know that if you wanna convince me Trump is so great, you are going to have to do better than that.

 

[52520Andrew]

I'm not democrate or republican, but I disagree with your first point. It works both ways, whether you are democrat or republican. You can use this as a blanket statement for either one of the parties that you support, but it works for all parties.

Yeah I mean cable news in general at least in the U.S. seems to be more about validating your already made opinion and entertainment than just straight telling the news. It is like ESPN where everything is an opinion show now instead of just showing the highlights

 

[Willbacker]

You keep trying to find any way you can to out me as this fake closet leftist. Frankly I am jealous that people like you can go on with your lives thinking there is anyone in congress or the white house that gives a rat's ass about this country and the people living in it. Talk about safe spaces, that is lala land. Trump is fighting fire with fire and that is only making things worse in regards to his tweets. Being an adult would be 1000x more effective. As I have stated countless times. But lets go through your claims of things he did showing he isn't fake.

The guy lowers taxes while we have a huge deficit.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/3230

Tariffs are one area I actually give him some credit, all the talk about how they are great for the country is silly though. And calling for a federal funds rate of 0 while the economy is decent is just stupid.

Moving an embassy doesn't do shit for me lol

We've talked immigration quite a bit, a wall by itself isn't solving things. But on that subject, declaring a national emergency to get wall money is something the Republican party will regret doing. Just like how the democrats regret invoking the nuclear option in the senate.

As for promises he made, he also said he wouldn't have time for the golf course. There sure must be a lot of fake pictures of him on golf courses floating around out there.

As for other Republicans and congress in general, refer to the second sentence of my post. An approval rating in the 40s sure isn't good though.

But you know the funny thing? Those people on Fox and conservative talk radio were all gung ho about McCain and Romney at one point. They were also all around during the Clinton days when you voted for Perot. They were supporting guys with no hesitation who you hated. If Trump actually cared about this country, he would never have the support of those people.

I don't think Trump is a leftist. But he does act like one with all the complaining about congress and the media. Step into a time machine to 5 years ago and people would indeed mistake you for a democrat with that stuff.

Also since you didn't bring it up, yes I know Hillary started the whole birtherism thing, even that isn't an original idea by Trump. He stooped to the level of Hillary.


I have been going through some family stuff these past couple weeks and honestly have had a change in heart in regards to this stuff. Life is too short and while the talk that Trump is this grand savior of the country is just silly to me, I'd rather not be the guy to take that away from someone at this point. It isn't like I think the democrats are going to roll out anyone decent and even if they did have someone decent, a candidate that cares about the people would never make it through the primaries. So if that is what you want to think then fine. I honestly even considered taking out my responses to the points in your post but frankly we both know it won't change your mind anyways and I wanted to at least let you know that if you wanna convince me Trump is so great, you are going to have to do better than that.

I can understand you not liking Trump but the complete bashing that is constantly doled doesn't make me think you are a leftist. Just blind to anything he does that is a positive since you've never once noted it and are only worried about tweets. I noticed you didn't say anything about what he's done for veterans or his backing of law enforcement. I'm hoping you agree with him on these things but the thing is you just cant admit it and that's the thing. What he has said on the campaign trail he has done his damn best to deliver so when you say he is fake I have to question it. You don't have to like him but he's not fake.

If you haven't understood by now why I bash the Dems then you never will. As I said when I redid my CDL back in 17 I decided to change from independent to republican and really the only reason I did so was so I can vote in the Republican primary in 20 then I probally will revert back. Do you not see the direction that party is taking? I voted for Trump and yet now according to them I'm part of a cult getting dogwhistled at. Do I actually need to list down the crap they want to do when they was talking during the debates? When you talk about the deficit is it really the tax cut? What about their ideas? The true thing is we have to reduce spending but who is giving up what. Its doesn't matter whats cut there's gonna be sqwauking. Whats really really needed is a downsizing of the federal govt and a flat tax. Right there downsizes the IRS but a lot of depts can also be shuttered like the Dept of Education for instance. Every state itself already has a dept of ed so why federal? 10th amendment. Reducing the spending doesn't just require shutdowns of social services even tho there needs to be drawback there also.. Why am I talking about this? Citizenship (immigration), The Constitution (the rule of law), less taxes and less govt is where I stand. Dems used to stand for this but now they're not for none of this

So when you say I need to convince you to vote for Trump. No I don't. Convince yourself and look at the big picture.

 

[rossihunter2]

I know we dont bring up non-us politics in this thread very often but for those of you not aware there is going to be, a week tomorrow, maybe the most important election in UK politics for a long time - probably the most important general election of my life with the country at a crossroads where it could go down 1 of 2 very different paths and the outcome will literally change the lives of millions either way it goes

 

[allblackraven]

I know we dont bring up non-us politics in this thread very often but for those of you not aware there is going to be, a week tomorrow, maybe the most important election in UK politics for a long time - probably the most important general election of my life with the country at a crossroads where it could go down 1 of 2 very different paths and the outcome will literally change the lives of millions either way it goes

Good luck but if it turns out bad, NZ is nice place to be.
Mostly because politically it's pretty boring.

 

[rossihunter2]

Good luck but if it turns out bad, NZ is nice place to be.
Mostly because politically it's pretty boring.

i hope it doesnt come to that lol

 

[Dom McRaven]

I know we dont bring up non-us politics in this thread very often but for those of you not aware there is going to be, a week tomorrow, maybe the most important election in UK politics for a long time - probably the most important general election of my life with the country at a crossroads where it could go down 1 of 2 very different paths and the outcome will literally change the lives of millions either way it goes

This about Brexit? Haven't kept up.

 

[rossihunter2]

This about Brexit? Haven't kept up.

it's about a whole lot of things - but brexit is a large part of it - but so is our healthcare - our housing - the climate - homelessness - child poverty

there's a high probability that if brexit happens under the conservative party that we lose our NHS as it currently is and end up at the mercy of big pharma and that is absolutely terrifying

no offence but im absolutely terrified of ending up with a system that even remotely resembles US healthcare

 

[Dom McRaven]

it's about a whole lot of things - but brexit is a large part of it - but so is our healthcare - our housing - the climate - homelessness - child poverty

there's a high probability that if brexit happens under the conservative party that we lose our NHS as it currently is and end up at the mercy of big pharma and that is absolutely terrifying

no offence but im absolutely terrified of ending up with a system that even remotely resembles US healthcare

When I was in England a couple of months ago, I did remember seeing a protest going on about climate change. As for Big Pharma, no one likes them except for Big Pharma peeps so I can relate.

Speaking of when I was in England, and this has absolutely positively nothing to do with politics, but my family and I went to Oxford Street and we ended up going inside the Microsoft store. Lo and behold, they actually had a McLaren Senna in the damn store for folks to get in and drive it in the Forza Simulator. Shit was crazy.

 

[rossihunter2]

When I was in England a couple of months ago, I did remember seeing a protest going on about climate change. As for Big Pharma, no one likes them except for Big Pharma peeps so I can relate.

Speaking of when I was in England, and this has absolutely positively nothing to do with politics, but my family and I went to Oxford Street and we ended up going inside the Microsoft store. Lo and behold, they actually had a McLaren Senna in the damn store for folks to get in and drive it in the Forza Simulator. Shit was crazy.

I used to be way more into cars until I could actually drive and go fast lol

 

[Willbacker]

it's about a whole lot of things - but brexit is a large part of it - but so is our healthcare - our housing - the climate - homelessness - child poverty

there's a high probability that if brexit happens under the conservative party that we lose our NHS as it currently is and end up at the mercy of big pharma and that is absolutely terrifying

no offence but im absolutely terrified of ending up with a system that even remotely resembles US healthcare

Just to be curious and I don't profess to know a lot about your UK NHS but why would you lose it with Brexit? Is the EU somehow involved?

 

[rossihunter2]

Just to be curious and I don't profess to know a lot about your UK NHS but why would you lose it with Brexit? Is the EU somehow involved?

it's been revealed that our current government (the conservatives) have already opened up introductory talks about a trade deal with the US which would open up the NHS to US pharmaceutical companies etc. and ultimately to the potential that it might become privatised

on top of that a large amount of the people who work in our hospitals are migrant workers from the EU who with the UK as part of the EU have the right to live and work in the UK - with the deal that would accompany a tory government, our connection to the EU via a customs union (among other things) would be gone and we'd no longer have freedom of movement and freedom of work so we'd lose a vast amount of potential workforce despite the fact that there is already a distinct shortage

there's more factors involved but mostly it's the potential for US companies getting involved in the potential privatisation of the NHS

 

[Willbacker]

it's been revealed that our current government (the conservatives) have already opened up introductory talks about a trade deal with the US which would open up the NHS to US pharmaceutical companies etc. and ultimately to the potential that it might become privatised

on top of that a large amount of the people who work in our hospitals are migrant workers from the EU who with the UK as part of the EU have the right to live and work in the UK - with the deal that would accompany a tory government, our connection to the EU via a customs union (among other things) would be gone and we'd no longer have freedom of movement and freedom of work so we'd lose a vast amount of potential workforce despite the fact that there is already a distinct shortage

there's more factors involved but mostly it's the potential for US companies getting involved in the potential privatisation of the NHS

I see. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if talks with the USA involve privatization but that doesn't nessarily kill the NHS. You would just have to pay private companies instead. Are all health services owned by the govt as it stand now?

On a sidenote you should also put some blame on the EU since they're using awful hard tactics with trade deal negotitians. It would work better for everybody if the two sides could just come to a deal mainly cuz of geographics.

 

[rossihunter2]

I see. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if talks with the USA involve privatization but that doesn't nessarily kill the NHS. You would just have to pay private companies instead. Are all health services owned by the govt as it stand now?

On a sidenote you should also put some blame on the EU since they're using awful hard tactics with trade deal negotitians. It would work better for everybody if the two sides could just come to a deal mainly cuz of geographics.

The thing is though - we dont pay private companies anything unless we want to get private health insurance - the beauty of the system is that its purely paid for through government funding so allowing access from us pharma companies would either pull apart the NHS as it currently is or would make it drastically more expensive

in terms of eu negotiating i dont really blame them at all - the last 2 governments have gone to europe with the wrong ideas and as such have ended up with bad deals - the EU represents 27 other nations and they have to do right by those nations

 

[Willbacker]

The thing is though - we dont pay private companies anything unless we want to get private health insurance - the beauty of the system is that its purely paid for through government funding so allowing access from us pharma companies would either pull apart the NHS as it currently is or would make it drastically more expensive

in terms of eu negotiating i dont really blame them at all - the last 2 governments have gone to europe with the wrong ideas and as such have ended up with bad deals - the EU represents 27 other nations and they have to do right by those nations

I'm thinking by your post that you're saying govt funding pays private companies as it is. You made me do some reseach tho and just to show how fearmongering can take so much out of context. We should agree Reuters is neutral.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-britain-health-idUSKCN1T51Z1

As for the EU I have to disagree since I remember Juncker saying Britain was gonna regret leaving. I'm sure they're cutting Britain no slack.