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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

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Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
My wife and I talked about this just yesterday - something definitely doesn't add up. Either they are not telling the entire story about this particular virus or there is something unrelated to virus to cover up with a bigger, manufactured story.

Should we soon expect reports of any deceased waking up?

Oh oh. Don't open up that can of worms lmao.

Sports seasons. Rock concerts. Parades. All being cancelled. You cant buy a bottle of hand sanitizer or rubbing alcohol. Damn crazy.
 

Ludy51

Hall of Famer
Oh oh. Don't open up that can of worms lmao.

Sports seasons. Rock concerts. Parades. All being cancelled. You cant buy a bottle of hand sanitizer or rubbing alcohol. Damn crazy.
I'd guess it's a combo of the increased infectivity + some people wanting panic and economic collapse.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
I'd guess it's a combo of the increased infectivity + some people wanting panic and economic collapse.

Well I compare 60 mil (over 10 month period) to 1400 (around 1 month) infected and I just don't get it. At least we'll have better hygiene. The last spring baseball game that was played they interviewed a guy who said the lines were amazingly long ………….for handwashing.

The media and the politization are really horrible where we should be showing the world our strengths. Not our weakness. But nope!!

Guess we just have to ride it out.
 

JO_75

Hall of Famer
So do we go ahead and cancel the election making Trump President for the next four years lol. I wonder how fast this virus would clear up and the overreaction from the media would clear up if they knew that would be the end result of their fear mongering tactics.
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
Well I compare 60 mil (over 10 month period) to 1400 (around 1 month) infected and I just don't get it. At least we'll have better hygiene. The last spring baseball game that was played they interviewed a guy who said the lines were amazingly long ………….for handwashing.

The media and the politization are really horrible where we should be showing the world our strengths. Not our weakness. But nope!!

Guess we just have to ride it out.
Media is definitely always out of hand, but the basic idea here is to try to prevent it from becoming 60mil.. Thinking today’s move by the Fed was correct.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
While I’ve never been a blind faith type, and my support for trump has been tentative at best over the years, I think this situation has pushed me over the edge.

the way trump has handled the coronavirus is just embarrassing. He gutted the cdc, He denied and downplayed, he took 2 months of time that could’ve been spent preparing and chose to ignore it entirely, then when shit hit the fan he stood at the podium and basically said “lol we’re trying but fuck idk let’s pray fam” and then deflected blame to Obama who literally had no hand in the lack of preparation, and now he is literally tweeting about the stock market having record increases as if rising back from a plummet induced partially by your recklessness isn’t moving the goal posts by definition.

and then seeing his supporters in comment sections, my god. These people now officially look worse than the 72 gendered college campus pink haired screechers.

I refuse to be categorized with these fucking people any longer, and I cannot stand by trump on this, I think he’s done his fair share of good the past 3 years that he doesn’t get enough credit for, and he’s made an ass of himself plenty of times, but THIS is unacceptable, I just draw the line completely at how he handled this. If he would’ve spoke the fuck up 2 weeks ago and said this is to be taken serious, we would be in better shape, but he called it a liberal media hoax and now half the country is all “lol just live your lives people it’s media induced panic”

that said, it seems state governments are handling this well. Hogan is doing a great job, moved fast to shut down schools, next step should be getting relief for businesses that employ nonessential workers, and mandating that the relief be used to support employees
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
While I’ve never been a blind faith type, and my support for trump has been tentative at best over the years, I think this situation has pushed me over the edge.

the way trump has handled the coronavirus is just embarrassing. He gutted the cdc, He denied and downplayed, he took 2 months of time that could’ve been spent preparing and chose to ignore it entirely, then when shit hit the fan he stood at the podium and basically said “lol we’re trying but fuck idk let’s pray fam” and then deflected blame to Obama who literally had no hand in the lack of preparation, and now he is literally tweeting about the stock market having record increases as if rising back from a plummet induced partially by your recklessness isn’t moving the goal posts by definition.

and then seeing his supporters in comment sections, my god. These people now officially look worse than the 72 gendered college campus pink haired screechers.

I refuse to be categorized with these fucking people any longer, and I cannot stand by trump on this, I think he’s done his fair share of good the past 3 years that he doesn’t get enough credit for, and he’s made an ass of himself plenty of times, but THIS is unacceptable, I just draw the line completely at how he handled this. If he would’ve spoke the fuck up 2 weeks ago and said this is to be taken serious, we would be in better shape, but he called it a liberal media hoax and now half the country is all “lol just live your lives people it’s media induced panic”

that said, it seems state governments are handling this well. Hogan is doing a great job, moved fast to shut down schools, next step should be getting relief for businesses that employ nonessential workers, and mandating that the relief be used to support employees

How many hoaxes have the democrats committed?? He said it was the democrats new hoax becuz they are politizing it. That's plain and simple. He is not saying coronavirus is a hoax!! Or a liberal media made up one. He had already enacted a travel ban on Russia back in Jan while he was being impeached. He was already working on it before you even heard of it probally. He has never downplayed it. And also whats he supposed to do? Put everybody in a panic or try to keep people calm. I mean come on. Also the Obama thing was him pointing out how Obama also tried to downplay the swine flu. Remember that? Was you freaking out then? He also never "gutted" the CDC. Not a penny ever been cut.

Quit watching edited youtubes!!!
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
How many hoaxes have the democrats committed?? He said it was the democrats new hoax becuz they are politizing it. That's plain and simple. He is not saying coronavirus is a hoax!! Or a liberal media made up one. He had already enacted a travel ban on Russia back in Jan while he was being impeached. He was already working on it before you even heard of it probally. He has never downplayed it. And also whats he supposed to do? Put everybody in a panic or try to keep people calm. I mean come on. Also the Obama thing was him pointing out how Obama also tried to downplay the swine flu. Remember that? Was you freaking out then? He also never "gutted" the CDC. Not a penny ever been cut.

Quit watching edited youtubes!!!
We might have different opinions, but here are some facts:
- The CDC website says that the first case of swine flu in the U.S. was detected on April 15, 2009. The Obama administration declared a Public Health Emergency on April 26, 2009.
- Trump literally said: “The 15 coronavirus cases in the US within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
Swine H1N1 was first detected in the US. COVID-19 was first detected in China. Obviously there would be different time frames for each for ramping up actions and declaring a national emergency in the US. Hopefully we learned a lot from the mistakes made in 2009 and keep the effects of this latest pandemic to a minimum.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
How many hoaxes have the democrats committed?? He said it was the democrats new hoax becuz they are politizing it. That's plain and simple. He is not saying coronavirus is a hoax!! Or a liberal media made up one. He had already enacted a travel ban on Russia back in Jan while he was being impeached. He was already working on it before you even heard of it probally. He has never downplayed it. And also whats he supposed to do? Put everybody in a panic or try to keep people calm. I mean come on. Also the Obama thing was him pointing out how Obama also tried to downplay the swine flu. Remember that? Was you freaking out then? He also never "gutted" the CDC. Not a penny ever been cut.

Quit watching edited youtubes!!!
Lies. A pandemic team in the CDC was basically scrapped to save money. He literally said Americans are at very low risk and there’s nothing to worry about only a week ago, and now it’s a national emergency, and rather than prepare he pushed it off as a non issue, that’s why we have not nearly enough functional test kits.

And the odds that he was prepping for this before I even knew of it are slim to none, considering we’re entirely unprepared and I’ve been following this closely since the first week of January, if trump had been taking it serious and prepping then we would be, idk, prepped. Also a travel ban from Russia back in January meant fuck all to this, Russia wasn’t a hot spot in any way shape or form and travel from China and surrounding areas was not banned until way too late. Also, patients are being denied tests unless they’re near critical status, I’m sure there’s a non political reason for that though... not like infection numbers have basically hovered for 3 days or anything, because that’s realistic
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
Lies. A pandemic team in the CDC was basically scrapped to save money. He literally said Americans are at very low risk and there’s nothing to worry about only a week ago, and now it’s a national emergency, and rather than prepare he pushed it off as a non issue, that’s why we have not nearly enough functional test kits.

And the odds that he was prepping for this before I even knew of it are slim to none, considering we’re entirely unprepared and I’ve been following this closely since the first week of January, if trump had been taking it serious and prepping then we would be, idk, prepped. Also a travel ban from Russia back in January meant fuck all to this, Russia wasn’t a hot spot in any way shape or form and travel from China and surrounding areas was not banned until way too late. Also, patients are being denied tests unless they’re near critical status, I’m sure there’s a non political reason for that though... not like infection numbers have basically hovered for 3 days or anything, because that’s realistic



I meant to say China not Russia. Big mistake on my part but he banned travel from China in Jan so no he didn't do it too late. He was also called racist for it btw. Also the pandemic team was a White House pandemic team. How fast can you assemble a team together? You ever want to cut the defecit? Also tests are not being denied. Its just being advised to not take one unless you're feeling symptoms. Right now we don't have enough tests. They're still being produced. What really do you want Trump to do.? He has banned travel and there is only so much you can do
until we get a vaccine. We can open borders like a lot of people want. Maybe we can throw abortion money into our bills. Also wouldnt you consider 1% of people dying that catch the illness and that waaaaay less than half are expected to catch it a low risk?

Thing is this is a very contagible disease and we need to be doing whats advised and not politizising but sticking together instead of pointing fingers.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
We might have different opinions, but here are some facts:
- The CDC website says that the first case of swine flu in the U.S. was detected on April 15, 2009. The Obama administration declared a Public Health Emergency on April 26, 2009.
- Trump literally said: “The 15 coronavirus cases in the US within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

A Public Health Emergency has less pull than a National Emergency which Obama declared it in Oct. 6 mths after the fact. Trump has already declare a National; Emergency where there is a lot more federal dollars available. Big difference.

I don't know about your 2nd point but I don't think it means much. Hopeful thinking I guess.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
I meant to say China not Russia. Big mistake on my part but he banned travel from China in Jan so no he didn't do it too late. He was also called racist for it btw. Also the pandemic team was a White House pandemic team. How fast can you assemble a team together? You ever want to cut the defecit? Also tests are not being denied. Its just being advised to not take one unless you're feeling symptoms. Right now we don't have enough tests. They're still being produced. What really do you want Trump to do.? He has banned travel and there is only so much you can do
until we get a vaccine. We can open borders like a lot of people want. Maybe we can throw abortion money into our bills. Also wouldnt you consider 1% of people dying that catch the illness and that waaaaay less than half are expected to catch it a low risk?

Thing is this is a very contagible disease and we need to be doing whats advised and not politizising but sticking together instead of pointing fingers.
I don’t point fingers, trump mishandled this lol. We wouldn’t be short on test kits if we didn’t cut the pandemic team and then treat this as a non issue for 2 months. Understand that if China is physically barricading a province of 60m people that the virus is serious as shit, and that it’s already traveling the globe at that point, banning travel was fine but the cats out of the bag already, so prepare for it because it WILL come, but instead he ignored it for months and then reported over and over that the risk was extremely low and said the cases would drop down to 0 within a week, when he could’ve used that time to prepare the country.

and they aren’t advising to wait for symptoms to test, people with symptoms are being denied, they’re only being given to people who are borderline critical, and the problem with waiting until symptoms are showing is that they’ve already been passing this virus around for 2 weeks or more by then. S Korea, and germany(a country Who’s leadership I can’t fucking stand btw) are the only ones who have handled this right, simply by preparing the means to seek out and treat, and providing their human citizens with human rights and allowing them to stay home for a time to limit contagion. But here in the US, deflect and ignore and when the shit hits the fan, blame it on the democrats and call it hysteria and go make your boss a dollar. This has really shined a light on the problems of this country and holy shit do the problems run deep
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
I don’t point fingers, trump mishandled this lol. We wouldn’t be short on test kits if we didn’t cut the pandemic team and then treat this as a non issue for 2 months. Understand that if China is physically barricading a province of 60m people that the virus is serious as shit, and that it’s already traveling the globe at that point, banning travel was fine but the cats out of the bag already, so prepare for it because it WILL come, but instead he ignored it for months and then reported over and over that the risk was extremely low and said the cases would drop down to 0 within a week, when he could’ve used that time to prepare the country.

and they aren’t advising to wait for symptoms to test, people with symptoms are being denied, they’re only being given to people who are borderline critical, and the problem with waiting until symptoms are showing is that they’ve already been passing this virus around for 2 weeks or more by then. S Korea, and germany(a country Who’s leadership I can’t fucking stand btw) are the only ones who have handled this right, simply by preparing the means to seek out and treat, and providing their human citizens with human rights and allowing them to stay home for a time to limit contagion. But here in the US, deflect and ignore and when the shit hits the fan, blame it on the democrats and call it hysteria and go make your boss a dollar. This has really shined a light on the problems of this country and holy shit do the problems run deep

Can you show me where he says it goes down to zero? Only thing I know of is the warm weather possibly knocking it out.I know he was told that. Plus you keep saying months. When did that virus come over here again? The risk is low. That is a fact. People with symptoms are not being denied. You have to get enough test kits.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Can you show me where he says it goes down to zero? Only thing I know of is the warm weather possibly knocking it out.I know he was told that. Plus you keep saying months. When did that virus come over here again? The risk is low. That is a fact. People with symptoms are not being denied. You have to get enough test kits.
He said it. The warm weather thing is total speculation and unfounded. It exploded in China back in January, That’s why we had months to prepare. And people with symptoms are being denied tests.

deny it, whatever, but these are facts of the situation.
 

Inqui

Pro Bowler
I don’t point fingers, trump mishandled this lol. We wouldn’t be short on test kits if we didn’t cut the pandemic team and then treat this as a non issue for 2 months. Understand that if China is physically barricading a province of 60m people that the virus is serious as shit, and that it’s already traveling the globe at that point, banning travel was fine but the cats out of the bag already, so prepare for it because it WILL come, but instead he ignored it for months and then reported over and over that the risk was extremely low and said the cases would drop down to 0 within a week, when he could’ve used that time to prepare the country.

and they aren’t advising to wait for symptoms to test, people with symptoms are being denied, they’re only being given to people who are borderline critical, and the problem with waiting until symptoms are showing is that they’ve already been passing this virus around for 2 weeks or more by then. S Korea, and germany(a country Who’s leadership I can’t fucking stand btw) are the only ones who have handled this right, simply by preparing the means to seek out and treat, and providing their human citizens with human rights and allowing them to stay home for a time to limit contagion. But here in the US, deflect and ignore and when the shit hits the fan, blame it on the democrats and call it hysteria and go make your boss a dollar. This has really shined a light on the problems of this country and holy shit do the problems run deep
Trump on cutting the CDC budget for the past two years (including a proposed 16% cut in the most recent budget):

I'm a businessperson. I don't like having thousands of people around when you don't need them. When we need them, we can get them back very quickly.
https://markets.businessinsider.com...nt-hire-doctors-coronavirus-2020-2-1028946602

He also fired the pandemic team in 2018.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/3...ited-states-public-health-emergency-response/

Which should confirm what the rest of us have been saying for a while - running a business (much less a private business in which you don't have to release audited annual reports) and running a government are completely different. It's one thing to tell people who can't afford health insurance to get better jobs in normal times, but it's something else when it gets in the way of those same people getting tested because of how easy it is to be a carrier. Things like free testing and vaccines (when it becomes available) isn't Venezuelan socialism - it's the common good.

I agree re the US having some deep problems at being able to respond to stuff like this, including a trainwreck of a healthcare system and worse employee protections such as sick leave. Hopefully it paves the way for some structural changes.

I'm not too up with the details of Germany's response, but the attitude in this part of the continent has been about personal responsibility (ie, if you think you have it, take a couple of Panadol and stay home) and tests are only being given out when shit gets serious. The parts that are responding the best are the ones that look the worst, like Denmark, because they've been carrying out a lot of tests. The gold standards have been the Asian countries with SARS experience though. Taiwan's a stone's throw from China but they've only had 50 cases. Singapore's another one, as are Thailand and Vietnam.

If you're interested in the spread of Covid from a global policy standpoint, this article is a bit long but it's well worth a read:
A couple of sobering points:
*The true cases and reported cases are on completely different curves.
*Where a lot of Western countries are in terms of confirmed cases, Wuhan had been in full lockdown for a few days.
*Because the growth is exponential (you affect three people, so soon that's nine people affected and then 27 and then 81 and so on), if authorities wait one day to respond that creates a 40% increase in cases. That also leads to a more severe collapse in the healthcare system.

For context, the first US case was in January (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_United_States) and Trump's Europe ban took two days to include Europe's biggest travel hub to the US.

Like you say, it would be negligent to not have some kind of systemic overhaul come out of this - no matter who's in the seats of government.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
He said it. The warm weather thing is total speculation and unfounded. It exploded in China back in January, That’s why we had months to prepare. And people with symptoms are being denied tests.

deny it, whatever, but these are facts of the situation.

Well with all the edited video like "The coronavirus is a hoax" I have my doubts. I couldn't find anything on it and I could only find one case of somebody being denied a test. That's why I was hoping you could provide something. And saying we had months is a little disingenuous since China was really keeping this on the down low and tests had to be created.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
Trump on cutting the CDC budget for the past two years (including a proposed 16% cut in the most recent budget):


https://markets.businessinsider.com...nt-hire-doctors-coronavirus-2020-2-1028946602

He also fired the pandemic team in 2018.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/3...ited-states-public-health-emergency-response/

Which should confirm what the rest of us have been saying for a while - running a business (much less a private business in which you don't have to release audited annual reports) and running a government are completely different. It's one thing to tell people who can't afford health insurance to get better jobs in normal times, but it's something else when it gets in the way of those same people getting tested because of how easy it is to be a carrier. Things like free testing and vaccines (when it becomes available) isn't Venezuelan socialism - it's the common good.

I agree re the US having some deep problems at being able to respond to stuff like this, including a trainwreck of a healthcare system and worse employee protections such as sick leave. Hopefully it paves the way for some structural changes.

I'm not too up with the details of Germany's response, but the attitude in this part of the continent has been about personal responsibility (ie, if you think you have it, take a couple of Panadol and stay home) and tests are only being given out when shit gets serious. The parts that are responding the best are the ones that look the worst, like Denmark, because they've been carrying out a lot of tests. The gold standards have been the Asian countries with SARS experience though. Taiwan's a stone's throw from China but they've only had 50 cases. Singapore's another one, as are Thailand and Vietnam.

If you're interested in the spread of Covid from a global policy standpoint, this article is a bit long but it's well worth a read:
A couple of sobering points:
*The true cases and reported cases are on completely different curves.
*Where a lot of Western countries are in terms of confirmed cases, Wuhan had been in full lockdown for a few days.
*Because the growth is exponential (you affect three people, so soon that's nine people affected and then 27 and then 81 and so on), if authorities wait one day to respond that creates a 40% increase in cases. That also leads to a more severe collapse in the healthcare system.

For context, the first US case was in January (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_United_States) and Trump's Europe ban took two days to include Europe's biggest travel hub to the US.

Like you say, it would be negligent to not have some kind of systemic overhaul come out of this - no matter who's in the seats of government.


So firing the pandemic team was the end all be all. First off a lot of these people were reassigned in other areas of the National Security Council (NSC) and this can be reformed quickly. We need a pandemic team not for coronavirus but for panic. Seriously you don't believe we have other ways of combatting a pandemic? Read below.

Earlier this week, Democrats asked Dr. Anthony Fauci, a member of the president’s coronavirus team who leads the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, about the decision to cut the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense. He was asked whether it had been a “mistake.”

Fauci said no, but added that it would also have been “nice” to have it around.

“I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as a mistake. I would say we worked very well with that office. It would be nice if the office was still there,” he said.

See what Dr Fauci says?? The media completely ignores his 1st sentence and concentrates on the last 2. Amirite?

I clearly remember awhile back you said you had private health but you keep peddling socialized medicine. Why have private when this is so great?? Kinda like why do we have private schools lol. Thing is testing is free. Thing is no copays. Wow you know but Trump is not getting nothing done.

Also lets get to the biggest lie there is. There has not been one penny taken from the CDC and this is constantly spread by the media. Its a big frigging lie. He proposed to cut the CDC by 16%. A Proposal!!! Congress has not passed it. No there should never be any efforts to cut budget.
 

Inqui

Pro Bowler
So firing the pandemic team was the end all be all. First off a lot of these people were reassigned in other areas of the National Security Council (NSC) and this can be reformed quickly. We need a pandemic team not for coronavirus but for panic. Seriously you don't believe we have other ways of combatting a pandemic? Read below.

Earlier this week, Democrats asked Dr. Anthony Fauci, a member of the president’s coronavirus team who leads the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, about the decision to cut the White House’s National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense. He was asked whether it had been a “mistake.”

Fauci said no, but added that it would also have been “nice” to have it around.

“I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as a mistake. I would say we worked very well with that office. It would be nice if the office was still there,” he said.

See what Dr Fauci says?? The media completely ignores his 1st sentence and concentrates on the last 2. Amirite?

I clearly remember awhile back you said you had private health but you keep peddling socialized medicine. Why have private when this is so great?? Kinda like why do we have private schools lol. Thing is testing is free. Thing is no copays. Wow you know but Trump is not getting nothing done.

Also lets get to the biggest lie there is. There has not been one penny taken from the CDC and this is constantly spread by the media. Its a big frigging lie. He proposed to cut the CDC by 16%. A Proposal!!! Congress has not passed it. No there should never be any efforts to cut budget.
It's his proposal, so the thing preventing that cut from becoming reality is Congress getting in his way. The CDC cuts are pretty easy to verify since the budgets are available online. The numbers in the right-hand columns are the changes on the previous year, and the red numbers in brackets are cuts (including the total amount for each year).
2019 - $691 million cut overall (even against the lower bars of previous years)
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2019/fy-2019-detail-table.pdf
2018 - $1.3 billion cut overall
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2018/fy-2018-cdc-budget-overview.pdf
2017 - $300 million cut overall
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2017/fy-2017-cdc-budget-overview.pdf

Who's lying?

As Joey says, you can't gut the CDC every year to improve the bottom line and expect to be able to respond well when a pandemic hits. Even if you have other response mechanisms, you've still hamstrung your own (already inadequate) infrastructure. And that's why running a business isn't the same as running a government.

The point with the private-public thing is that every other country in the developed world has both - you keep missing the point on this so I'm not going to keep banging my head against the wall. But more specifically to Covid-19, it's one thing for a person who can't afford insurance to have to pay to get an operation on a broken leg. But it's another for a person who can't afford insurance to not get tested for an infectious disease because, like I also said, one person getting infected quickly leads to 81 getting infected.

That's why governments are being judged based in no small part on how early and often they're getting people tested. The governments that will look great once this is all said and done are the ones that didn't fuck around (Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Denmark) while the ones who'll come out of it with some soul-searching to do are the ones that didn't act quickly or effectively enough (Italy, Spain, the US). If you need me to explain why the private sector can't/shouldn't be held responsible for a country's response then I don't know what to tell you.
 
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JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Well with all the edited video like "The coronavirus is a hoax" I have my doubts. I couldn't find anything on it and I could only find one case of somebody being denied a test. That's why I was hoping you could provide something. And saying we had months is a little disingenuous since China was really keeping this on the down low and tests had to be created.
The Chinese government was lying and jailing whistleblowers, aside from that this was no secret, how did regular joes like me know this was coming for near 2 months but the fucking US president doesn’t? It’s not that China was quiet and people didn’t know, it’s that trump didn’t care. China barricaded 60m inside the Hubei province, that’s not “keeping on the down low”, that’s an unprecedented measure that we haven’t seen in modern human history.

the ball has been severely dropped, to deny that is blind faith, and that is a reckless practice in times like these, what we need is for everyone to play their part and be proactive, but the ones not doing that are trumps blind faith followers.
 
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