The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[rossihunter2]

The Chinese government was lying and jailing whistleblowers, aside from that this was no secret, how did regular joes like me know this was coming for near 2 months but the fucking US president doesn’t? It’s not that China was quiet and people didn’t know, it’s that trump didn’t care. China barricaded 60m inside the Hubei province, that’s not “keeping on the down low”, that’s an unprecedented measure that we haven’t seen in modern human history.

the ball has been severely dropped, to deny that is blind faith, and that is a reckless practice in times like these, what we need is for everyone to play their part and be proactive, but the ones not doing that are trumps blind faith followers.

i mean im frustrated with my own government's response to this but Trump and the rest of that administration's response is another level of awful - i guess that's what happens when you have a government that has gone on a war against scientists and "experts" for the sum total of its lifespan - there comes a point where there are actual consequences

and while Trump is to blame, there has to be a significant portion of blame put on the GOP and other members of that ruling class for facilitating and not holding him to account or checking him at all - that set a precedent for what's been happening up until now in this crisis

 

[Inqui]

i mean im frustrated with my own government's response to this but Trump and the rest of that administration's response is another level of awful - i guess that's what happens when you have a government that has gone on a war against scientists and "experts" for the sum total of its lifespan - there comes a point where there are actual consequences

and while Trump is to blame, there has to be a significant portion of blame put on the GOP and other members of that ruling class for facilitating and not holding him to account or checking him at all - that set a precedent for what's been happening up until now in this crisis

I'd also add that the public health infrastructure has been getting gutted for a while now (including under the Democrats) - not that it absolves Trump of his disaster of a response.

This kinda sums it up.

 

[Willbacker]

It's his proposal, so the thing preventing that cut from becoming reality is Congress getting in his way. The CDC cuts are pretty easy to verify since the budgets are available online. The numbers in the right-hand columns are the changes on the previous year, and the red numbers in brackets are cuts (including the total amount for each year).
2019 - $691 million cut overall (even against the lower bars of previous years)
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2019/fy-2019-detail-table.pdf
2018 - $1.3 billion cut overall
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2018/fy-2018-cdc-budget-overview.pdf
2017 - $300 million cut overall
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2017/fy-2017-cdc-budget-overview.pdf

Who's lying?

As Joey says, you can't gut the CDC every year to improve the bottom line and expect to be able to respond well when a pandemic hits. Even if you have other response mechanisms, you've still hamstrung your own (already inadequate) infrastructure. And that's why running a business isn't the same as running a government.

The point with the private-public thing is that every other country in the developed world has both - you keep missing the point on this so I'm not going to keep banging my head against the wall. But more specifically to Covid-19, it's one thing for a person who can't afford insurance to have to pay to get an operation on a broken leg. But it's another for a person who can't afford insurance to not get tested for an infectious disease because, like I also said, one person getting infected quickly leads to 81 getting infected.

That's why governments are being judged based in no small part on how early and often they're getting people tested. The governments that will look great once this is all said and done are the ones that didn't fuck around (Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Denmark) while the ones who'll come out of it with some soul-searching to do are the ones that didn't act quickly or effectively enough (Italy, Spain, the US). If you need me to explain why the private sector can't/shouldn't be held responsible for a country's response then I don't know what to tell you.

Bro I can read charts

https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2020/fy-2020-detail-table.pdf

This is the 2020 chart with proposed cuts. Now look at 2019 on this chart. Notice the spending was higher than 2018 but yet you sir are trying to say the spending went down with your 1st link. Spending went up!!! You are showing charts which show budget proposals buuuut those reduction/cuts don't happen. So no there has been no cuts!!! And I know you know better. Come on man.

Its like it blew right over your head when I said the testings are free. You're still talking about people not affording it. Ok we also have Medicaid for people that cant afford insurance. Comes right out of our paychecks. That's a form of socialized medicine just like Medicare for people over 65. These plans really aren't that great since private healthcare/employer paid healthcare are better. Right now our country cant even run the VA right and thank goodness Trump created veterans choice where now they can go to any hospital and the govt will pay for it. Right now they're talking about getting rid of our private healthcare and opening the borders. Is that a good idea? Talk to Crazy Bernie and Biden aint no better. Obamacare sucked!!!

Problem is only govt can fix things...……..and that's total BS.

 

[Willbacker]

The Chinese government was lying and jailing whistleblowers, aside from that this was no secret, how did regular joes like me know this was coming for near 2 months but the fucking US president doesn’t? It’s not that China was quiet and people didn’t know, it’s that trump didn’t care. China barricaded 60m inside the Hubei province, that’s not “keeping on the down low”, that’s an unprecedented measure that we haven’t seen in modern human history.

the ball has been severely dropped, to deny that is blind faith, and that is a reckless practice in times like these, what we need is for everyone to play their part and be proactive, but the ones not doing that are trumps blind faith followers.

Good lord. He banned travel from China back in Jan and was called racist by the Democrats for doing so'

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html

When I say keeping it on the down low how many people were allowed to enter China to survey the situation. What we just gonna muscle our way in there? We have to make tests and just understand the disease in general. Remember there was also an impeachment going on that ended in mid Feb

What do you mean only Trumps blind faith followers are not being proactive? I guess all them employees in Panera are Trump zombie followers. That's a dumbass statement.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Good lord. He banned travel from China back in Jan and was called racist by the Democrats for doing so'

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html

When I say keeping it on the down low how many people were allowed to enter China to survey the situation. What we just gonna muscle our way in there? We have to make tests and just understand the disease in general. Remember there was also an impeachment going on that ended in mid Feb

What do you mean only Trumps blind faith followers are not being proactive? I guess all them employees in Panera are Trump zombie followers. That's a [profanity deleted] statement.

Nice use of what-aboutism, the democrats are gonna badmouth trump at every turn, that much has been proven, he still needs to do his job, and he didn’t. He opted for the reduce panic tactic by not being transparent or proactive. And the democrats and the media aren’t what have influenced my thoughts on this, the cold hard facts did that.

and yes teenage fuckheads working in fast food are the exact people I expect to not treat this seriously, they know fuckall about life and as much as I’d like to smack them around a bit and wake them up, benefit of the doubt and all, but the GROWN ASS PEOPLE who need to know better are still talking about this being a common cold and media induced hysteria. If you’re a grown ass adult talking about how this only kills old people(as if that’s not bad enough), and referring to this as a cough and a media uproar meant to make trump look bad, you’re part of the problem, and that’s what his blind faith followers are doing.

we cannot have half the country blindly following their candidate regardless of their actions, and that goes for both sides of the spectrum, so no more of the “but what about the democrats!!!” Nonsense

 

[Willbacker]

Nice use of what-aboutism, the democrats are gonna badmouth trump at every turn, that much has been proven, he still needs to do his job, and he didn’t. He opted for the reduce panic tactic by not being transparent or proactive. And the democrats and the media aren’t what have influenced my thoughts on this, the cold hard facts did that.

and yes teenage fuckheads working in fast food are the exact people I expect to not treat this seriously, they know fuckall about life and as much as I’d like to smack them around a bit and wake them up, benefit of the doubt and all, but the GROWN ASS PEOPLE who need to know better are still talking about this being a common cold and media induced hysteria. If you’re a grown ass adult talking about how this only kills old people(as if that’s not bad enough), and referring to this as a cough and a media uproar meant to make trump look bad, you’re part of the problem, and that’s what his blind faith followers are doing.

we cannot have half the country blindly following their candidate regardless of their actions, and that goes for both sides of the spectrum, so no more of the “but what about the democrats!!!” Nonsense

If you want to hate a man for trying to reduce panic then by all means go ahead and hate. The problem is you keep saying he's not proactive. I 1000% disagree. Right now how many deaths have actually happened? How many happen during the flu which we have vaccines for? The coronavirus is very important mainly cuz of that one thing and its highly contagious and until that is solved we're gonna have a problem and right now that vaccine may not be ready (FDA approved) until 2021. Hopefully we can fasttrack that.

Now to get back to this proactive shit. What should he have done? Induce panic? Right now 99% will survive if they catch the virus. How would you have kept the virus out of the US? There really was no way. Trump tried his best by enacting the travel ban on China but it didn't stop it. There are at least 360 mil roundabouts lets say in the US but yet we should have those kits ready to go. Right?

Ok no CDC cuts. He didn't call coronavirus a hoax. He's already declared a National Emergency. Wtf do you want done?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

If you want to hate a man for trying to reduce panic then by all means go ahead and hate. The problem is you keep saying he's not proactive. I 1000% disagree. Right now how many deaths have actually happened? How many happen during the flu which we have vaccines for? The coronavirus is very important mainly cuz of that one thing and its highly contagious and until that is solved we're gonna have a problem and right now that vaccine may not be ready (FDA approved) until 2021. Hopefully we can fasttrack that.

Now to get back to this proactive shit. What should he have done? Induce panic? Right now 99% will survive if they catch the virus. How would you have kept the virus out of the US? There really was no way. Trump tried his best by enacting the travel ban on China but it didn't stop it. There are at least 360 mil roundabouts lets say in the US but yet we should have those kits ready to go. Right?

Ok no CDC cuts. He didn't call coronavirus a hoax. He's already declared a National Emergency. Wtf do you want done?

Establish the severity of the situation, prep the medical systems and get testing sorted out before it hits, if we have a first wave like Italy had we’re talking huge numbers of deaths because we don’t have enough hospital beds or ventilators available, establish to your blind faith followers that this is serious and that it’s not a media hoax and that we need to make small adjustments to our lives right now, literally that right there is all that’s needed. “Flatten the curve” as many have said, if the cases of severe symptom patients go from 2000 to 10000 in a matter of a week(likely) then it’s gonna keep skyrocketing exponentially and crash the medical systems and people will drop like flies, literally all you had to do as the president was tell your followers that this is serious and that if you avoid places like crowded malls, events, restaurants, festivals, etc. for just 2-4 weeks then they would have, and it slows the contagion and things go smoothly because you’re not only lessening the first wave but you’re also better prepared. But no, you tell people it’s media uproar, a hoax by the democrats, now you’re followers are not making the slight adjustments they needed to and are spreading misinformation all over the goddamn place and making other people act just as ignorant.

now when we have 15000 people hit the hospitals in one day and we have more critical patients than we have icus and people start dying in ER lobbies, what do these people do? Blame the democrats? Blame Obama? Blame China? Blame the cdc? Who tf knows but based on everything we’ve seen so far, it’s gonna be more finger pointing than it is action.

oh and enough with the days of prayer bullshit smfh

 

[rossihunter2]

and yes teenage fuckheads working in fast food are the exact people I expect to not treat this seriously, they know fuckall about life and as much as I’d like to smack them around a bit and wake them up, benefit of the doubt and all, but the GROWN ASS PEOPLE who need to know better are still talking about this being a common cold and media induced hysteria. If you’re a grown ass adult talking about how this only kills old people(as if that’s not bad enough), and referring to this as a cough and a media uproar meant to make trump look bad, you’re part of the problem, and that’s what his blind faith followers are doing.

they're also people who are less incentivised to not keep working because they dont have guaranteed sick pay or any reason not to keep working

to fix this you have to not only lock things down but you have to incentivise people not going to work who would normally need work to live

why would someone who's going paycheck to paycheck stop going to work if they dont get sick pay - just another layer that wasnt even thought about in the build-up so now telling people to stay at home wont be enough because for some that's just as much of a death sentence as covid-19 might be

 

[JoeyFlex5]

they're also people who are less incentivised to not keep working because they dont have guaranteed sick pay or any reason not to keep working

to fix this you have to not only lock things down but you have to incentivise people not going to work who would normally need work to live

why would someone who's going paycheck to paycheck stop going to work if they dont get sick pay - just another layer that wasnt even thought about in the build-up so now telling people to stay at home wont be enough because for some that's just as much of a death sentence as covid-19 might be

Oh yes but that runs much deeper, that’s some shit that can’t be fixed overnight, that’s inherent flaws in the system that would require multiple terms of committed work and just a generational change in philosophy for the whole country, and it’s a philosophy that won’t be bought into because workers rights in the US are considered commie bullshit and anyone who thinks a worker should have more than a week of PTO is a lazy freeloader. This country for far too long has been about nose to the grindstone and work hard and bla bla, it’s pathetic.

I once worked in asphalt, and between rounds of trucks during high traffic times, you have downtime between very hard work, while the whole crew was standing around a truck smoking cigarettes and talking about hunting for the 1000th day in a row, I was sitting down and resting for the next round, the foreman yelled “I don’t fucking pay you to sit” to which I replied “you don’t fucking pay me to stand either, you pay me to work asphalt and when the work is here I’ll work it” and he called the office on me, and he was basically told to stfu because I was right, which shows how it is, vs how it should be. The problem is too many people in power are like the former rather than the latter

 

[Willbacker]

Establish the severity of the situation, prep the medical systems and get testing sorted out before it hits, if we have a first wave like Italy had we’re talking huge numbers of deaths because we don’t have enough hospital beds or ventilators available, establish to your blind faith followers that this is serious and that it’s not a media hoax and that we need to make small adjustments to our lives right now, literally that right there is all that’s needed. “Flatten the curve” as many have said, if the cases of severe symptom patients go from 2000 to 10000 in a matter of a week(likely) then it’s gonna keep skyrocketing exponentially and crash the medical systems and people will drop like flies, literally all you had to do as the president was tell your followers that this is serious and that if you avoid places like crowded malls, events, restaurants, festivals, etc. for just 2-4 weeks then they would have, and it slows the contagion and things go smoothly because you’re not only lessening the first wave but you’re also better prepared. But no, you tell people it’s media uproar, a hoax by the democrats, now you’re followers are not making the slight adjustments they needed to and are spreading misinformation all over the goddamn place and making other people act just as ignorant.

now when we have 15000 people hit the hospitals in one day and we have more critical patients than we have icus and people start dying in ER lobbies, what do these people do? Blame the democrats? Blame Obama? Blame China? Blame the cdc? Who tf knows but based on everything we’ve seen so far, it’s gonna be more finger pointing than it is action.

oh and enough with the days of prayer bullshit smfh

Ok what are the symptoms of coronavirus. Cough? Fever? Runny nose? Sounds like the flu. Does it or does it not? Its the way it was described. The severity of the situation has been addressed with quarantines (a lot of them right by the airports) and travel bans. The travel ban by itself tells you the severity. Here were some of the reactions cuz of this.

“This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia — hysterical xenophobia — and fearmongering,” said Biden the day after the travel restrictions were imposed.

CNN ran a story warning that “the US coronavirus travel ban could backfire” and have the effect of “stigmatizing countries and ethnicities.”

The Chinese Communist Party’s official mouthpiece, the People’s Daily, called the ban “racist.”

WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus warned it would increase “fear and stigma, with little public health benefit.”

But man you keep telling me that Trump is not proactive or relaying the severity. He has. While everybody else got their head up impeachments ass. It is like the flu. You have a low risk of dying. These are truths. The 1st case in the USA was found on Jan 22 but yet we should already have the testing sorted out. This is a new virus. We have to manufacture kits. If you want to talk about the real problem we should be talking about all our pharmaceutical medicine and supplies not being made in the US but over in China.

Bottomline line is its on the people to do the right thing. Right now I'm seeing a lot of greed with these rushes for toilet paper. A complete panic caused by who? Media that's who. Do we really need to be doing all this shit? The good thing is people are now washing their hands. I'd love to know what they was doing before.

 

[Willbacker]

Oh yes but that runs much deeper, that’s some shit that can’t be fixed overnight, that’s inherent flaws in the system that would require multiple terms of committed work and just a generational change in philosophy for the whole country, and it’s a philosophy that won’t be bought into because workers rights in the US are considered commie bullshit and anyone who thinks a worker should have more than a week of PTO is a lazy freeloader. This country for far too long has been about nose to the grindstone and work hard and bla bla, it’s pathetic.

I once worked in asphalt, and between rounds of trucks during high traffic times, you have downtime between very hard work, while the whole crew was standing around a truck smoking cigarettes and talking about hunting for the 1000th day in a row, I was sitting down and resting for the next round, the foreman yelled “I don’t fucking pay you to sit” to which I replied “you don’t fucking pay me to stand either, you pay me to work asphalt and when the work is here I’ll work it” and he called the office on me, and he was basically told to stfu because I was right, which shows how it is, vs how it should be. The problem is too many people in power are like the former rather than the latter

Hell I get 5 weeks off and nobody better ever call me lazy for it. I work my ass off and earned every week I got. Your foreman sounded like an asswipe. You choose how you want to rest and I'm glad the company did the right thing.

 

[JO_75]

Trump screwed up for sure but let's face it. He's in a no win situation regardless of what he does in any situation. Media and leftists will pounce on him and try to make him look bad(again, Trump does this very well himself so he doesn't need the Dems to do this for him). Also at this point, for as bad as he screwed up with this, he's looking at an easy win in November over Joe Biden. The Dems really want Biden for some odd reason but no way he is getting elected with the whole MeToo stuff going on and the way he gets touchy with young girls.

 

[Inqui]

Ok what are the symptoms of coronavirus. Cough? Fever? Runny nose? Sounds like the flu. Does it or does it not? Its the way it was described.

FYI (in case you or someone you know has it), the main symptoms are a fever, a dry cough that gets more severe, shortness of breath, and fatigue in more advanced cases. Things like a headache and runny nose have been reported but aren't as consistent among sufferers, so it's worth keeping an eye mainly on those first three.
https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-covid-19#symptoms

And because the virus spreads before symptoms show, if you do have those symptoms you may have had the virus for anywhere between two days and two weeks without realising it. In which case it's best to give everyone you've been in contact with in that time a heads-up so everyone involved can self-isolate for a bit because there's a good chance they caught it too.

Re the CDC budgets, I did actually miss that it was the President's budget and not the final one (I quickly went with the first budgets I could find on the site, assumed it was the final one because it was so prominent and didn't see the sub-heading). With that said, there was an increase in the 2018 budget (thank Congress I guess) but there were cuts in 2017 and 2019. It's pretty clear what Trump wanted though.

 

[Willbacker]

FYI (in case you or someone you know has it), the main symptoms are a fever, a dry cough that gets more severe, shortness of breath, and fatigue in more advanced cases. Things like a headache and runny nose have been reported but aren't as consistent among sufferers, so it's worth keeping an eye mainly on those first three.
https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-covid-19#symptoms

And because the virus spreads before symptoms show, if you do have those symptoms you may have had the virus for anywhere between two days and two weeks without realising it. In which case it's best to give everyone you've been in contact with in that time a heads-up so everyone involved can self-isolate for a bit because there's a good chance they caught it too.

Re the CDC budgets, I did actually miss that it was the President's budget and not the final one (I quickly went with the first budgets I could find on the site, assumed it was the final one because it was so prominent and didn't see the sub-heading). With that said, there was an increase in the 2018 budget (thank Congress I guess) but there were cuts in 2017 and 2019. It's pretty clear what Trump wanted though.

By what I'm reading I believe the money for CDC went up in 2019 but yes it is Congress keeping these cuts from happening. Trump is doing what a conservative is supposed to be doing and that's to try and cut budget. This wasn't the only dept he was trying to do this in. People always talk about the federal govt overspending...….

 

[JO_75]

So much for "social distancing"

 

[Willbacker]

So much for "social distancing"

I know Hogan has closed down restaurants, movie theaters and the like where you have public congretion. Kills my work for right now but I have to agree with his move. I'm all for freedom of assembly and such but we have to be responsible at the same time.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Larry Hogan’s got big dick energy about this whole situation. And I mean that in the most hetero way possible lmao.

“ok you all wanna dress up like green assholes and flood the bars? Fine, your shits cancelled, your whole fucking lives, try me bitch”

honestly Larry hogan, aside from being a little too left leaning on the 2A discussion, has got to be the best governor in the nation, he’s incredible

 

[JO_75]

How long until we are in a lockdown for a certain amount of time? As in nobody can go out unless going to the store, bank, doctors, basically what's happening in Italy.

I just really want things to return to normal... and my sports back.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

6500 cases in US today, 1200 on Friday. More than 500% increase in 4 days. But remember, this is just a ploy by the democrats to ruin the stock market so trump looks bad.

 

[cdp]

6500 cases in US today, 1200 on Friday. More than 500% increase in 4 days. But remember, this is just a ploy by the democrats to ruin the stock market so trump looks bad.

Do you know if there is a country which tries to fight the virus with herd immunity?