The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[cdp]

Yes, sweden is doing better than europe because

1: it's death rates are hardly any different and better per 1 million than most of the major countries
2: they are living normal lives and businesses are not being destroyed.
3: They are further along in the herd immunity process

how is the UK doing better?
hint: it aint

Wrong again, have you actually been to Sweden? I don't think so. Businesses are destroyed over there as well because people are staying at home

 

[Sami84]

imagine if all of you cared as much about the rest of the worlds deaths as much as this

 

[Sami84]

Wrong again, have you actually been to Sweden? I don't think so. Businesses are destroyed over there as well because people are staying at home

Staying home clearly doesnt save lives then does it

anyhow, heres on for ya

 

[Sami84]

It's sad how easy media controls people.If people realized how many worse things are actually going on than covid 19 ( TRUTHFULLY) I dont know if they could handle life...

 

[rossihunter2]

Yes, sweden is doing better than europe because

1: it's death rates are hardly any different and better per 1 million than most of the major countries
2: they are living normal lives and businesses are not being destroyed.
3: They are further along in the herd immunity process

how is the UK doing better?
hint: it aint

the uk is doing either worst or 2nd worst in europe depending on how you feel about sweden

what's the commonality between the two?

the UK started with a herd immunity policy and then realised the science made no sense so changed tack

the uk doing worse isnt the "gotcha" you think it is

 

[Sami84]

the uk is doing either worst or 2nd worst in europe depending on how you feel about sweden

what's the commonality between the two?

the UK started with a herd immunity policy and then realised the science made no sense so changed tack

the uk doing worse isnt the "gotcha" you think it is

HErd immunity is about things getting worse before they get better pronto. It's the epitome of getting to the curve ASAP rather than prolonging a process. The second wave will apply to countries who didnt adapt swedens policy

 

[rossihunter2]

imagine if all of you cared as much about the rest of the worlds deaths as much as this

the world has stopped which is why it's not worse than it is...

it was always said from the outset that if countries got their policy correct to start with it would look like they overreacted

 

[Sami84]

the world has stopped which is why it's not worse than it is...

it was always said from the outset that if countries got their policy correct to start with it would look like they overreacted

Herd immunity is NOT a swear word... it is THE solution. (If you don't know the science, can't discuss the relevant papers, don't know exactly how statistical inference is made...couldn't conduct a statistical analysis yourself: ...then DON'T discuss).

 

[Sami84]

It is nothing but arrogance of the highest order that we humans believe that (now this thing is amongst us, whatever its origin) that we can now meangingfully affect the outcomes. The die are cast. We will now all be exposed, and a percentage of us will not survive it. Apparent co-morbidities include chronic systemic inflammation (therefore hypertension, obesity, type II diabetes, many cancers, etc), and ACEII-inhibitors, HMG-CoA Reductase inhibiters (statins). There is a particular association with age, however this relationship holds for all the comorbidities already listed. "Isolation" only delays the outcome, it doesn't meaningfully moderate it.

 

[Sami84]

Humans don't live in realtime it seems. We feel this sense of entitlment in nature yet act like tourists in nature. If you understand your body, nature accomplishes everything in time.

How about you understand your body first and rather than panic like someone who's lost in an alien world who has no relationship with the natural world and its capacity to heal go make a start by understanding cytokine responses and modulators.

or even better go play in some dirt and laugh this off!

 

[Sami84]

in a nutshell, you need patience and exposure to build herd immunity and the antibodies
It's not going to take a month or two, more like a year

staying inside is just delaying the process for later.

You can blame china for this mess.

 

[rossihunter2]

HErd immunity is about things getting worse before they get better pronto. It's the epitome of getting to the curve ASAP rather than prolonging a process. The second wave will apply to countries who didnt adapt swedens policy

no herd immunity literally refers to "herd" "immunity" - it is about the population having enough people who are immune to a particular strain so that those who arent immune are protected by the immunity of everyone else

herd immunity therefore inherently relies upon people either getting the virus and surviving but that only helps if the antibodies in your body have a long-term memory for this coronavirus strain... something that is still not proven one way or another - or it relies upon a large inoculation process whereby the 95% immunity is created by vaccine

herd immunity does not require suffering to be effective - it just requires a vaccine and patience to wait for one

the idea of the curve has basically nothing to do with herd immunity either because the flattening of the curve is about not over-burdening hospitals so that those who do get the virus (or those with any other serious medical problems) dont die from preventable issues

you're right that sweden wont get a 2nd wave - that's because it's 1st wont end until this is all over and many people have died

the total death rates in the france, italy and the UK are higher but in all those places the death rate is reducing while Sweden's is accelerating - for the last 2 weeks it has had the highest daily death rate per capita in the world... worse than the UK and the US

 

[rossihunter2]

Herd immunity is NOT a swear word... it is THE solution. (If you don't know the science, can't discuss the relevant papers, don't know exactly how statistical inference is made...couldn't conduct a statistical analysis yourself: ...then DON'T discuss).

herd immunity is the end goal - how we get there is what im arguing with you about

it's not a strategy...

 

[Sami84]

no herd immunity literally refers to "herd" "immunity" - it is about the population having enough people who are immune to a particular strain so that those who arent immune are protected by the immunity of everyone else

herd immunity therefore inherently relies upon people either getting the virus and surviving but that only helps if the antibodies in your body have a long-term memory for this coronavirus strain... something that is still not proven one way or another - or it relies upon a large inoculation process whereby the 95% immunity is created by vaccine

herd immunity does not require suffering to be effective - it just requires a vaccine and patience to wait for one

the idea of the curve has basically nothing to do with herd immunity either because the flattening of the curve is about not over-burdening hospitals so that those who do get the virus (or those with any other serious medical problems) dont die from preventable issues

you're right that sweden wont get a 2nd wave - that's because it's 1st wont end until this is all over and many people have died

the total death rates in the france, italy and the UK are higher but in all those places the death rate is reducing while Sweden's is accelerating - for the last 2 weeks it has had the highest daily death rate per capita in the world... worse than the UK and the US

and what do you think is going to happen when the lockdown ends

drum roll.....

I think i've been clear here. There is a process and the outcomes will not change, they will just be more spread out in time. I'm on of those people who like to get things over with ASAP than prolong a situation that won't have any end result difference ( in deaths/cases)

 

[Sami84]

Herd immunity is about demographic/geographic exposure.

yes, you might have less deaths if you lockdown but thats not going to create herd immunity. You're just not leaving your castle to fight the dragon, brave knight...but the dragon aint going nowhere.

 

[rossihunter2]

and what do you think is going to happen when the lockdown ends

drum roll.....

I think i've been clear here. There is a process and the outcomes will not change, they will just be more spread out in time. I'm on of those people who like to get things over with ASAP than prolong a situation that won't have any end result difference ( in deaths/cases)

except the result will be different - the deaths will be markedly lower in a lockdown strategy because healthcare wont be overburdened and will in stead be able to give effective treatments to prevent preventable deaths

and idk what you're referring to when the lockdown ends - the lockdown is to mitigate the initial surges - once under control you release lockdown but keep heavy social distancing and hygiene measures in place until you can do mass inoculation...

 

[rossihunter2]

Herd immunity is about demographic/geographic exposure.

yes, you might have less deaths if you lockdown but thats not going to create herd immunity. You're just not leaving your castle to fight the dragon, brave knight...but the dragon aint going nowhere.

which is what a vaccine is for
that's why they were invented to do - to help create herd immunity and save lives that didnt need to be lost

 

[Sami84]

except the result will be different - the deaths will be markedly lower in a lockdown strategy because healthcare wont be overburdened and will in stead be able to give effective treatments to prevent preventable deaths

and idk what you're referring to when the lockdown ends - the lockdown is to mitigate the initial surges - once under control you release lockdown but keep heavy social distancing and hygiene measures in place until you can do mass inoculation...

the reason why the numbers have gone down in italy with deaths and so forth is very very clear
they changed their treatment protcol.

I'm not in NY but I've heard hospitals are barren and some are being closed down.
The correlations don't add up.
More people are dying because of diabetes and heart disease ( 2000 times more) and yet covic 19 has special hospitals?
Crock of shite, mate.

 

[Sami84]

which is what a vaccine is for
that's why they were invented to do - to help create herd immunity and save lives that didnt need to be lost

boom and that's where you don't understand science. You're banking everything of the V word.
Want to know why autism sky rocketed from 1989 onwards?
Anyhow, it's clear you follow the fauci/gallo model of big pharma medicine. No coronavirus will be effectivly reduced without long term issues and it won't even be effective in the long run. If you want to be injected with foreign substances and trace metals rather than fucking building an immune system that is intelligent and creates the antibodies the natural way, be my guest...your body your choice but government have no right to tell people life can only continue normally for them if they have a vaccine.

there are only 4-5 safe vaccines ever created..and hint ( none post 1986)

 

[allblackraven]

so what's going to happen when the lockdown ends?
or you implying that they should be lockdown forever?
How many people are DYING for OTHER REASONS due to the lockdown?

you didnt read my post properly, did you?

You are the one who doesn't read - I keep saying early lockdown. those who did it early will be left to deal with significantly smaller numbers, easier to manage after the lockdown ends.
In the early may, Sweden had only 7% of recovered people with antibodies developed. Yay for herd immunity.

Keep pushing bullshit holistic agenda.