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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

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allblackraven

Hall of Famer
Hey @Sami84 what in the world are you talking about with 5G? I am more confused than ever... Is there some insinuation of a connection between 5G and COVID-19? I hope that isn't what you mean right?
Yeah.
Same fucking bullshit we were all warned about with 2G, 3G, 4G - only frequency band changes in these stories. Of course it's dangerous - if you're sitting up on the cell tower for longer period of time.
And now 5G will mean we've become Big Brother society. As in surveillance doesn't work with current technologies and hasn't been working for decades now.
They always choose opportune times to somehow make links to whatever serious issue is around, thus confusing gullible.
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
you mean all the articles you can find through google?

You wont find any neutral vaccine articles on google

And if you've been reading my posts

You'd know why

You're only going to get damage control on google/youtube as it pertains to gates/vaccines/5g

You're something else, Rossi. I'm not an expert on football so what i consider to be a take on football is an ''opinion'' not the ''truth''
but for you to basically say that all these people damaged by vaccines, people I deal with are lying and that I'm lying and that thousands of doctors and scientists who have 0 corporate interest are ''lying'' and bill gates funded establishments and corporate papers aren't

you're a special kind of arrogant/stupid
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
Yeah.
Same fucking bullshit we were all warned about with 2G, 3G, 4G - only frequency band changes in these stories. Of course it's dangerous - if you're sitting up on the cell tower for longer period of time.
And now 5G will mean we've become Big Brother society. As in surveillance doesn't work with current technologies and hasn't been working for decades now.
They always choose opportune times to somehow make links to whatever serious issue is around, thus confusing gullible.


Oh man, the difference in surveillance with 5G ( combined with nutcase elon musks 45000 satellites in space) is astronomical. I was reading a paper about what 5g does as it pertains to upgrading mass surveillance. It's like going from terrence cody to bruce smith
 
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Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
5G is harmful cumulatively. It's like aging, its not happening overnight ( as in when you look in the mirror tomorrow or next week you're not going to be like, wow i look so much older than yesterday)

@rossihunter2

all life is about frequencies. When you have an artificial frequency like WIFI that is anti-homeostasis, saying it isnt harmful is like coca cola telling you to only drink 2 cans a day instead of a liter for the rest of your life and thinking thats okay because it's the ''guidelines''
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
whats worse and most fascist about this is that they aren't even giving people a choice.
Facism
and no its not about faster download speeds.
They are so obsessed with putting up these towers ( even during lockdowns)
and it's to build the orwellien nightmare that corporations can use to dismantle what it means to be human.
A.I based slavery that will be numbed into the senses of every person as normal

people have no idea what freedom is.

taking away your power, one tip toe at a time.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
you mean all the articles you can find through google?

You wont find any neutral vaccine articles on google

And if you've been reading my posts

You'd know why

You're only going to get damage control on google/youtube as it pertains to gates/vaccines/5g

You're something else, Rossi. I'm not an expert on football so what i consider to be a take on football is an ''opinion'' not the ''truth''
but for you to basically say that all these people damaged by vaccines, people I deal with are lying and that I'm lying and that thousands of doctors and scientists who have 0 corporate interest are ''lying'' and bill gates funded establishments and corporate papers aren't

you're a special kind of arrogant/stupid

i didnt use google...

and dont play the victim now - you've been accusing me of lying the whole time - and when i provide you with actual empirical evidence and data to prove my points you pretend you have provided the same - your links and articles come from unsubstantiated studies made my disreputed sources that provide no empirical data or acknowledgements of the limitations of their studies

it's a lot of anecdotal evidence which is where this whole anti-vax movement started in the first place - 1 guy (since discredited) using the cases of 12 cherry-picked kids to make a claim an investor wanted him to make (because it would make them money)

so i wont say you're lying - but i will say you are incredibly misinformed

and btw i thought you said you were going to not post anymore about this here anyway
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Oh man, the difference in surveillance with 5G ( combined with nutcase elon musks 45000 satellites in space) is astronomical. I was reading a paper about what 5g does as it pertains to upgrading mass surveillance. It's like going from terrence cody to bruce smith

5g doesnt inherently change the capabilities of mass surveillance - it just runs on a different frequency the systems are no different to what they were previously (the same protections will bare the same results as with 4g and 3g etc.)

the only way any of this will change is if we get into the realm of quantum computing (which is in its infancy now but would provide natural non-decryptable communications
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
i didnt use google...

and dont play the victim now - you've been accusing me of lying the whole time - and when i provide you with actual empirical evidence and data to prove my points you pretend you have provided the same - your links and articles come from unsubstantiated studies made my disreputed sources that provide no empirical data or acknowledgements of the limitations of their studies

it's a lot of anecdotal evidence which is where this whole anti-vax movement started in the first place - 1 guy (since discredited) using the cases of 12 cherry-picked kids to make a claim an investor wanted him to make (because it would make them money)

so i wont say you're lying - but i will say you are incredibly misinformed

and btw i thought you said you were going to not post anymore about this here anyway

what I'm saying is that the papers you sent were flawed and I even showed you the response of a doctor regarding the mechanistic errors
the ones that I showed you and were shown by hundreds of doctors and even doctors WHO DID THE INVESTIGATIONS THEMSELVES.

All ( i repeat ALL) vaccination programs/companies are financially linked to 1 man..follow the crumbs, he pays a lot of money to throw out studies to suit his narrative
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
5g doesnt inherently change the capabilities of mass surveillance - it just runs on a different frequency the systems are no different to what they were previously (the same protections will bare the same results as with 4g and 3g etc.)

the only way any of this will change is if we get into the realm of quantum computing (which is in its infancy now but would provide natural non-decryptable communications



 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
5G is harmful cumulatively. It's like aging, its not happening overnight ( as in when you look in the mirror tomorrow or next week you're not going to be like, wow i look so much older than yesterday)

@rossihunter2

all life is about frequencies. When you have an artificial frequency like WIFI that is anti-homeostasis, saying it isnt harmful is like coca cola telling you to only drink 2 cans a day instead of a liter for the rest of your life and thinking thats okay because it's the ''guidelines''

how can you possibly make that claim?
that's an absolute horseshit claim if ever there was one - if it only has a cumulative effect over longer periods of time then it cant have had any reasonable studies done of it yet given that the technology is only just starting

what a ridiculous logical fallacy

and in terms of frequencies - every astronomical event has a frequency - frequencies arent static - an artificial frequency should have no different impact to any other non-regular astronomical event or non-regular electrical event on the supposed homeostasis of your body

every shooting star, every static shock, every lightning strike...
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
my great uncle said asbestos was a bad idea and he was told to fuck off
he was a micro biologist.

the rossis of the 1940's would have told my uncle..FUCK OFF the establishment said its safe
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
how can you possibly make that claim?
that's an absolute horseshit claim if ever there was one - if it only has a cumulative effect over longer periods of time then it cant have had any reasonable studies done of it yet given that the technology is only just starting

what a ridiculous logical fallacy

and in terms of frequencies - every astronomical event has a frequency - frequencies arent static - an artificial frequency should have no different impact to any other non-regular astronomical event or non-regular electrical event on the supposed homeostasis of your body

every shooting star, every static shock, every lightning strike...

do you have any idea how incorrect what you just said is? Shall I go Nikola Tesla on you?
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
Frequencies and light wavelengths that are artificial or not artificial can be bad OR GOOD for human health

for example

You have have a modified calcium or magnesium supplement, ie not in its natural food form and get some benefits

you can have an artificial LED light at a frequency/wavelength of 660nm and it is in fact HEALING. Same with NIR's at 850NM

but 5G is not a frequency that is pro ATP or Mitochondria
Theres a reason why its been used in the military for 25 years plus to disperse crowds.
ALL scientific data points to it as a detriment to optimal cellular proliferation

You want negative ionic compounds in the air
not positive

guess what you're getting with 5G
positive.
and its nonstop
for the rest of your life

dude, go back to your scouting videos
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
what I'm saying is that the papers you sent were flawed and I even showed you the response of a doctor regarding the mechanistic errors
the ones that I showed you and were shown by hundreds of doctors and even doctors WHO DID THE INVESTIGATIONS THEMSELVES.

All ( i repeat ALL) vaccination programs/companies are financially linked to 1 man..follow the crumbs, he pays a lot of money to throw out studies to suit his narrative

you quoted 1 comment on the paper...

here are the author's responses to most of the complaints levied at the paper:

Response
To the Editor:

Mr. Crosby repeats the claim that the age-adjustment in our original 2002 paper has “artificially eliminated” an association between MMR and autism. He references an unpublished letter by Dr. Suissa, claiming that the rates in Table 2 of our 2002 paper and our adjusted RRs are incompatible and that this might reflect effect modification. This is incorrect. From Table 2 in our 2002 paper, we can calculate the crude relative risk (RR) of autistic disorder as 1.45 (95% CI, 1.08-1.95). Adjusting for age yields a RR of 0.91 (0.68-1.23). As explained previously, the discrepancy between the crude and age-adjusted RRs is due to the follow-up in the unvaccinated group comprising person-time from 1 year of age until age at MMR vaccination from all the MMR vaccinated children. Now, if we start follow-up at 2 years of age instead of 1 year of age we get a crude RR of 0.90 (0.66-1.22) and an age-adjusted RR of 0.88 (0.65-1.19). Clearly, starting follow-up at an age where the unvaccinated and vaccinated groups have similar age distributions yields almost identical results as the main result in the paper; we maintain that adjustment for age is both appropriate and necessary with follow-up from 1 year of age. Similarly, for our current study, we repeat our previous response: In Figure 2, we present cumulative incidences according to age; there is absolutely no suggestion of any age interval where vaccinated children have a higher rate of autism than unvaccinated children, and a test of homogeneity yielded a P-value of 0.138 (see Results).

Mr. Crosby claims that there is clear evidence of an interaction between sibling status and MMR vaccination. We tested this and found no such evidence P>0.20 (see Figure 3). Mr. Crosby also claims that analyzing sibling status, as a time-varying variable is inappropriate. This, too, is not correct. By continually updating sibling status in the event of a sibling receiving an autism diagnosis, all information this variable can supply as a proxy for genetic susceptibility is utilized. Our claim that the two approaches measure the same attribute with differing degrees of statistical precision is supported by a comparison of autism HRs: status at study start HR 7.32 (5.29-10.12) and time-varying status HR 7.64 (6.77-8.62) (Table 3, Supplementary Material).

In conclusion, we maintain that we have analyzed the current study and our 2002 study using appropriate statistical methods, finding no support for an association between MMR vaccination and autism risk, a lack of an association that also applied in children with autistic siblings.

Sincerely,
Anders Hviid, Jørgen Vinsløv Hansen, Morten Frisch, Mads Melbye.
Anders Hviid, Jørgen Vinsløv Hansen, Morten Frisch, Mads MelbyeStatens Serum Institut11 March 2019



Authors' Response

To the Editor:

We appreciate the massive, global attention our paper has received and have carefully evaluated all comments. Below, we address the major claims made by some of our critics.

Mr. Arumugham lists a number of specific biological mechanisms hypothesized to be involved in the etiology of autism, and he rightfully claims that epidemiological studies are not capable of addressing such mechanisms. However, Mr. Arumugham ignores the central message from our present and prior well-conducted epidemiological investigations, namely that regardless of which biological mechanisms lead to autism, there is no difference in autism risk between MMR-vaccinated and MMR-unvaccinated individuals. In this light, it seems illogical and futile to continue the quest to understand the biology of autism by focusing on theoretical adverse effects of a vaccine that seems, rather compellingly, to be safe both overall and, specifically, in relation to autism risk.

Professor Exley wants to know if we took prior exposure to aluminium, for example in vaccinations that include an aluminium adjuvant, into account. Indeed, we did. According to Figure 3 in the paper, MMR vaccination was not associated with autism risk, whether children had been vaccinated with aluminium-adjuvanted vaccines (DTaP-IPV/Hib) in infancy or not.

In response to Mr. Crosby’s comment it should be noted that sibling status at 1 year of age was not an effect modifier (Figure 3, p>0.20), and the confidence interval for the “Siblings with autism” effect estimate overlaps HR=1.00. In Figure 2 of the Supplementary Material, we transparently provide the unadjusted cumulative incidences according to age and vaccination status, and stratified according to child’s sex and sibling history of autism; these supplementary analyses do not support an association in children with autistic siblings. Sibling status at 1 year of age is a conservative measure of “Siblings with autism” with only 5 unvaccinated and 32 vaccinated cases (Figure 3). If we consider sibling history as a time-varying variable, that is, each child’s “sibling status” is updated during the study period, e.g. if a sibling is diagnosed with autism, we gain statistical power. In this analysis, MMR vaccination was also not associated with autism risk in children with autistic siblings (HR, 1.15, 95% CI, 0.71-1.87) (see Results).

The further claim by Mr. Crosby that we “artificially eliminated” an association between MMR vaccination and autism by adjusting for age in our 2002 study is false and reveals an incomplete understanding of survival analysis. Our 2002 study and the current study share many similarities in study design, and thus, the concept of confounding by age is clearly illustrated in Figure 1 of the Supplementary Material, where the distribution of time and autism cases according to vaccination status and age is visualized; here we show that unvaccinated children are younger, and since younger children have lower rates of autism the crude rate ratio is confounded by age. Consequently, adjustment for age is required. In Figure 2, we present cumulative incidences according to age; there is no suggestion of any age interval where vaccinated children have a higher rate of autism than unvaccinated children, and a test of homogeneity yielded a P-value of 0.138 (see Results).

In conclusion, we maintain that we have analyzed the current study as well as our 2002 study using appropriate statistical methods, finding no support for an association between MMR vaccination and autism risk, a lack of an association that also applied in children with autistic siblings.

Sincerely,
Anders Hviid, Jørgen Vinsløv Hansen, Morten Frisch and Mads Melbye



This is 1 of a large body of peer-reviewed papers (others of which i have also posted links to) that all investigate links between MMR and autism with various different methodologies - not 1 has found any link between the 2 - nor has any vaccine study - including of the risks of a so-called "vaccine overload" theory that is even less substantiated than the rest
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
my great uncle said asbestos was a bad idea and he was told to fuck off
he was a micro biologist.

the rossis of the 1940's would have told my uncle..FUCK OFF the establishment said its safe

what an outrageous statement - there is empirical evidence supporting your great uncle's idea that asbestos is bad

in much the same way that the consensus on man-made climate change was suppressed by big oil etc. later in the 20th century - but the empirical data was still there to come to those conclusions

this is not the same - the data suggests the exact opposite of what you are proposing...

which makes you a lot less like your great uncle than you purport to be

but also fuck you - the rossis of the 1940s were running from the Holocaust in mainland Europe before settling in the UK
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
you quoted 1 comment on the paper...

here are the author's responses to most of the complaints levied at the paper:

Response
To the Editor:

Mr. Crosby repeats the claim that the age-adjustment in our original 2002 paper has “artificially eliminated” an association between MMR and autism. He references an unpublished letter by Dr. Suissa, claiming that the rates in Table 2 of our 2002 paper and our adjusted RRs are incompatible and that this might reflect effect modification. This is incorrect. From Table 2 in our 2002 paper, we can calculate the crude relative risk (RR) of autistic disorder as 1.45 (95% CI, 1.08-1.95). Adjusting for age yields a RR of 0.91 (0.68-1.23). As explained previously, the discrepancy between the crude and age-adjusted RRs is due to the follow-up in the unvaccinated group comprising person-time from 1 year of age until age at MMR vaccination from all the MMR vaccinated children. Now, if we start follow-up at 2 years of age instead of 1 year of age we get a crude RR of 0.90 (0.66-1.22) and an age-adjusted RR of 0.88 (0.65-1.19). Clearly, starting follow-up at an age where the unvaccinated and vaccinated groups have similar age distributions yields almost identical results as the main result in the paper; we maintain that adjustment for age is both appropriate and necessary with follow-up from 1 year of age. Similarly, for our current study, we repeat our previous response: In Figure 2, we present cumulative incidences according to age; there is absolutely no suggestion of any age interval where vaccinated children have a higher rate of autism than unvaccinated children, and a test of homogeneity yielded a P-value of 0.138 (see Results).

Mr. Crosby claims that there is clear evidence of an interaction between sibling status and MMR vaccination. We tested this and found no such evidence P>0.20 (see Figure 3). Mr. Crosby also claims that analyzing sibling status, as a time-varying variable is inappropriate. This, too, is not correct. By continually updating sibling status in the event of a sibling receiving an autism diagnosis, all information this variable can supply as a proxy for genetic susceptibility is utilized. Our claim that the two approaches measure the same attribute with differing degrees of statistical precision is supported by a comparison of autism HRs: status at study start HR 7.32 (5.29-10.12) and time-varying status HR 7.64 (6.77-8.62) (Table 3, Supplementary Material).

In conclusion, we maintain that we have analyzed the current study and our 2002 study using appropriate statistical methods, finding no support for an association between MMR vaccination and autism risk, a lack of an association that also applied in children with autistic siblings.

Sincerely,
Anders Hviid, Jørgen Vinsløv Hansen, Morten Frisch, Mads Melbye.
Anders Hviid, Jørgen Vinsløv Hansen, Morten Frisch, Mads MelbyeStatens Serum Institut11 March 2019



Authors' Response

To the Editor:

We appreciate the massive, global attention our paper has received and have carefully evaluated all comments. Below, we address the major claims made by some of our critics.

Mr. Arumugham lists a number of specific biological mechanisms hypothesized to be involved in the etiology of autism, and he rightfully claims that epidemiological studies are not capable of addressing such mechanisms. However, Mr. Arumugham ignores the central message from our present and prior well-conducted epidemiological investigations, namely that regardless of which biological mechanisms lead to autism, there is no difference in autism risk between MMR-vaccinated and MMR-unvaccinated individuals. In this light, it seems illogical and futile to continue the quest to understand the biology of autism by focusing on theoretical adverse effects of a vaccine that seems, rather compellingly, to be safe both overall and, specifically, in relation to autism risk.

Professor Exley wants to know if we took prior exposure to aluminium, for example in vaccinations that include an aluminium adjuvant, into account. Indeed, we did. According to Figure 3 in the paper, MMR vaccination was not associated with autism risk, whether children had been vaccinated with aluminium-adjuvanted vaccines (DTaP-IPV/Hib) in infancy or not.

In response to Mr. Crosby’s comment it should be noted that sibling status at 1 year of age was not an effect modifier (Figure 3, p>0.20), and the confidence interval for the “Siblings with autism” effect estimate overlaps HR=1.00. In Figure 2 of the Supplementary Material, we transparently provide the unadjusted cumulative incidences according to age and vaccination status, and stratified according to child’s sex and sibling history of autism; these supplementary analyses do not support an association in children with autistic siblings. Sibling status at 1 year of age is a conservative measure of “Siblings with autism” with only 5 unvaccinated and 32 vaccinated cases (Figure 3). If we consider sibling history as a time-varying variable, that is, each child’s “sibling status” is updated during the study period, e.g. if a sibling is diagnosed with autism, we gain statistical power. In this analysis, MMR vaccination was also not associated with autism risk in children with autistic siblings (HR, 1.15, 95% CI, 0.71-1.87) (see Results).

The further claim by Mr. Crosby that we “artificially eliminated” an association between MMR vaccination and autism by adjusting for age in our 2002 study is false and reveals an incomplete understanding of survival analysis. Our 2002 study and the current study share many similarities in study design, and thus, the concept of confounding by age is clearly illustrated in Figure 1 of the Supplementary Material, where the distribution of time and autism cases according to vaccination status and age is visualized; here we show that unvaccinated children are younger, and since younger children have lower rates of autism the crude rate ratio is confounded by age. Consequently, adjustment for age is required. In Figure 2, we present cumulative incidences according to age; there is no suggestion of any age interval where vaccinated children have a higher rate of autism than unvaccinated children, and a test of homogeneity yielded a P-value of 0.138 (see Results).

In conclusion, we maintain that we have analyzed the current study as well as our 2002 study using appropriate statistical methods, finding no support for an association between MMR vaccination and autism risk, a lack of an association that also applied in children with autistic siblings.

Sincerely,
Anders Hviid, Jørgen Vinsløv Hansen, Morten Frisch and Mads Melbye



This is 1 of a large body of peer-reviewed papers (others of which i have also posted links to) that all investigate links between MMR and autism with various different methodologies - not 1 has found any link between the 2 - nor has any vaccine study - including of the risks of a so-called "vaccine overload" theory that is even less substantiated than the rest

This study is not even used anymore as a reference because its paramters were flawed. case in point

in summer 2019, ICAN submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the CDC requesting “All studies relied upon by CDC to claim that the DTaP vaccine does not cause autism.” ICAN also submitted this same request for HepB, Hib, PCV13 and IPV, as well as requesting the CDC provide studies to support the cumulative exposure to these vaccines during the first six months of life do not cause autism. Despite months of demands, the CDC failed to produce a single specific study in response to these FOIA requests. ICAN was therefore forced to sue the CDC in federal court, where the CDC finally conceded, in a stipulation signed by a Federal court judge, that that it has no studies to support that any of these vaccines do not cause autism.
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
What you are basically saying is that the families, the children who were normal prior to vaccine and not normal post 1 day of vaccine are liars

theres only one asshole here and it aint me


you're also calling the thousand of doctors who are telling you that these studies have been doctored by corporation and bought out and thrown out by avarice are liars

what have they got to lose?
Plenty
what have they got to gain?
Very little
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
This study is not even used anymore as a reference because its paramters were flawed. case in point

in summer 2019, ICAN submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the CDC requesting “All studies relied upon by CDC to claim that the DTaP vaccine does not cause autism.” ICAN also submitted this same request for HepB, Hib, PCV13 and IPV, as well as requesting the CDC provide studies to support the cumulative exposure to these vaccines during the first six months of life do not cause autism. Despite months of demands, the CDC failed to produce a single specific study in response to these FOIA requests. ICAN was therefore forced to sue the CDC in federal court, where the CDC finally conceded, in a stipulation signed by a Federal court judge, that that it has no studies to support that any of these vaccines do not cause autism.

lucky for you that the CDC actually has a list of studies on its website that it uses to support its claims (summaries and links to which ive already posted)

also lucky for you that the rest of the world isnt reliant on the CDC and in fact is able to undertake its own medical research

the study is not used as a reference in new works because it's less than a year old and is the newest major study...

but ive already listed multiple other studies that also conclude the same as this one - that there is no link between vaccination and autism
 
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