• Welcome to PurpleFlock! Sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.

The Offseason Thread

Edgar said:
Wormley has translated to the NFL exactly as they hoped. He has improved in fact. He is great against the run, assignment sound always, good with his hands, very, very difficult to move, has high football IQ, great effort, is versatile, absolutely CAN win one on one vs. guard by way of hands and sheer technique, and most importantly, he plays with consistently tremendous leverage. He will rarely lose that battle.
These sort of skills are not run of the mill or hum. Not by a long stretch. You simply cannot just raise guys up from stones that can play/understand how to play at his level.
If you could, then Belichik wouldn't have Guy so heavy in his rotation. I understand you would like an end that can do all this AND get you 8-10.
I didn't like the warmly pick initially ( wanted Hunt) but I disagree thoroughly about how valuable a player he is right at this moment.
Click to expand...
A player like that isn't valuable unless the depth is lacking, which it is at the moment, thank you for proving my point.

Wormley isn't bad, not what I'm saying. Any of these dlinemen in the first are probable upgrades.

Question: If Chris Wormley tears his ACL tomorrow, or even after the draft, how does it affect our team? It's a minor bummer. We can likely sign someone for the vet minimum, or hell retain Urban who's an upgrade. If he's one of the more talented interior pass rushers on the team right now, there's a major problem.

We need to draft more interior rushers. Wormley is at his best as a rotational piece.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
A player like that isn't valuable unless the depth is lacking, which it is at the moment, thank you for proving my point.

Wormley isn't bad, not what I'm saying. Any of these dlinemen in the first are probable upgrades.

Question: If Chris Wormley tears his ACL tomorrow, or even after the draft, how does it affect our team? It's a minor bummer. We can likely sign someone for the vet minimum, or hell retain Urban who's an upgrade. If he's one of the more talented interior pass rushers on the team right now, there's a major problem.

We need to draft more interior rushers. Wormley is at his best as a rotational piece.
Click to expand...
So. A lineman in the first is a "probable" upgrade over a third round pick? OK. He better be. You do him a disservice by calling him average I think. Thats all I am saying. As I said, you can't just raise up a guy that can do all the things he does well from out of nowhere. You think Tillery, a first round pick is going to come in and hold up at 5tech? he won't. he gets regularly moved by college guards one on one in the run game. He is going to set the edge against NFL tackles? he is going to be responsible for two gaps and hold up a guard/tackle? Does he show the ability to hold up a lineman and shed? The answer is no to all three and if you want him in round one and expect him to play 5, the answer needs to be yes.

you're under selling Wormley. And you're right; we do need interior rushers but I wouldn't take it solely out on Wormley without taking into account the things he is so good at.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
A player like that isn't valuable unless the depth is lacking, which it is at the moment, thank you for proving my point.

Wormley isn't bad, not what I'm saying. Any of these dlinemen in the first are probable upgrades.

Question: If Chris Wormley tears his ACL tomorrow, or even after the draft, how does it affect our team? It's a minor bummer. We can likely sign someone for the vet minimum, or hell retain Urban who's an upgrade. If he's one of the more talented interior pass rushers on the team right now, there's a major problem.

We need to draft more interior rushers. Wormley is at his best as a rotational piece.
Click to expand...

dude i think you've missed a lot of what wormley did last year on the DL - he's already a starter we just happened to have a rotation with 5 starting DL (especially at the beginning of the year when henry was healthy) - and in fact he statistically had the 3rd most starts on the DL behind Brandon Williams and Brent Urban which tells you everything you need to know about how much starts actually mean...

wormley takes on double teams with success, he occupies space, fills his gap and also is a threat in the passing game especially when he's singled...

if he's gone then we have a hole at 5tech - Sieler's not done anything yet and is by all intents and purposes a project who we dont know about yet and Urban's not on the team (and if we bring him back we might lose a 4th round pick out of the whole deal) and on top of that we lose the snaps wormley would give us - starts on the DL dont matter but Chris Wormley was the 3rd most used Dlineman (used more than michael pierce) and only urban and williams had more snaps (and urban is gone because the team likes wormley so much)

wormley is likely going to be this year's defensive ironman and im excited to see how he'll progress in year 3 having made a major leap from college to rookie and then again from rookie to sophomore

he may not be a guy who'll ever make a pro bowl but that doesnt mean that what he does isnt a valuable (and difficult) skillset and one that is hard to coach up and find in the league
 
rossihunter2 said:
dude i think you've missed a lot of what wormley did last year on the DL - he's already a starter we just happened to have a rotation with 5 starting DL (especially at the beginning of the year when henry was healthy) - and in fact he statistically had the 3rd most starts on the DL behind Brandon Williams and Brent Urban which tells you everything you need to know about how much starts actually mean...

wormley takes on double teams with success, he occupies space, fills his gap and also is a threat in the passing game especially when he's singled...
Click to expand...
To add to your point: https://twitter.com/abukari/status/1119073689767698432
 
Edgar said:
So. A lineman in the first is a "probable" upgrade over a third round pick? OK. He better be. You do him a disservice by calling him average I think. Thats all I am saying. As I said, you can't just raise up a guy that can do all the things he does well from out of nowhere. You think Tillery, a first round pick is going to come in and hold up at 5tech? he won't. he gets regularly moved by college guards one on one in the run game. He is going to set the edge against NFL tackles? he is going to be responsible for two gaps and hold up a guard/tackle? Does he show the ability to hold up a lineman and shed? The answer is no to all three and if you want him in round one and expect him to play 5, the answer needs to be yes.

you're under selling Wormley. And you're right; we do need interior rushers but I wouldn't take it solely out on Wormley without taking into account the things he is so good at.
Click to expand...
He's average. Tillery has more UPSIDE(which is what matters) and with some basic NFL coaching is going to be a day one upgrade. And having seen a lot of Tillery tape, he's capable of all those things. He's not as good as a Simmons, etc, but Wormley doesn't have that kind of upside. Then again, with how insanely idiotic Harbaugh is, even Ed Oliver would be benched in favor of Wormley because of experience.


Again, if he goes and tears his ACL, it's a minor bummer. We aren't losing much. We can go get a guy for the vet minimum and get the same impact.
He's not bad. But let's not confuse him.
rossihunter2 said:
dude i think you've missed a lot of what wormley did last year on the DL - he's already a starter we just happened to have a rotation with 5 starting DL (especially at the beginning of the year when henry was healthy) - and in fact he statistically had the 3rd most starts on the DL behind Brandon Williams and Brent Urban which tells you everything you need to know about how much starts actually mean...

wormley takes on double teams with success, he occupies space, fills his gap and also is a threat in the passing game especially when he's singled...

if he's gone then we have a hole at 5tech - Sieler's not done anything yet and is by all intents and purposes a project who we dont know about yet and Urban's not on the team (and if we bring him back we might lose a 4th round pick out of the whole deal) and on top of that we lose the snaps wormley would give us - starts on the DL dont matter but Chris Wormley was the 3rd most used Dlineman (used more than michael pierce) and only urban and williams had more snaps (and urban is gone because the team likes wormley so much)

wormley is likely going to be this year's defensive ironman and im excited to see how he'll progress in year 3 having made a major leap from college to rookie and then again from rookie to sophomore

he may not be a guy who'll ever make a pro bowl but that doesnt mean that what he does isnt a valuable (and difficult) skillset and one that is hard to coach up and find in the league
Click to expand...

He never made a major leap. He was this player in college, and had little to no upside. To say he made a leap is just a falsehood. It's why I hated the pick to start off with. He had little upside and had already maxed out. I'm not saying he's bad.

I'd bet a pretty penny that Seiler is a better player. Wormley was more pro ready coming out of school. Seiler has more physical gifts and actually dominated his college competition.. Wormley is a solid, but nowhere close to good or even above average, player who is a good piece as a rotational player.

He's just another example of this fanbase romanticizing certain players.

If we're banking on Wormley being one of our better dlinemen in general, we are in for a long season.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
He's average. Tillery has more UPSIDE(which is what matters) and with some basic NFL coaching is going to be a day one upgrade. And having seen a lot of Tillery tape, he's capable of all those things. He's not as good as a Simmons, etc, but Wormley doesn't have that kind of upside. Then again, with how insanely idiotic Harbaugh is, even Ed Oliver would be benched in favor of Wormley because of experience.


Again, if he goes and tears his ACL, it's a minor bummer. We aren't losing much. We can go get a guy for the vet minimum and get the same impact.
He's not bad. But let's not confuse him.


He never made a major leap. He was this player in college, and had little to no upside. To say he made a leap is just a falsehood. It's why I hated the pick to start off with. He had little upside and had already maxed out. I'm not saying he's bad.

I'd bet a pretty penny that Seiler is a better player. Wormley was more pro ready coming out of school. Seiler has more physical gifts and actually dominated his college competition.. Wormley is a solid, but nowhere close to good or even above average, player who is a good piece as a rotational player.

He's just another example of this fanbase romanticizing certain players.

If we're banking on Wormley being one of our better dlinemen in general, we are in for a long season.
Click to expand...
Wormley isn’t as good as Lawrence Guy is. Guy can play in multiple spots. We used him a lot as the only down lineman, I haven’t seen us doing that with Wormley as much as we did with Guy. He’s a great run defender who uses proper technique & hands. Our run defense was much better in 2016 than 2017 we he left. PFF graded him in the high 80’s and low 90’s over the last 3 seasons.

I said it before Tillery is Chris Jones 2.0 and he'd be massive upgrade for our dl.
 
@Lost_In_Translation
so I was wrong...not about Wormley;). but I was way to brief in my viewing of Tillery. Ive gone back and watched him a bunch today. Impressed by him. He's definitely a first round talent to me. I didn't remember how much he moves around their front and for some reason remembered him pretty exclusively at 3tech. Not the case. Great effort as well. Was often double teamed on passing downs.

He has some issues to me vs. the run but the difference he would make getting to the qb is very apparent. I'll take two of Clellin Ferrel for one Jerry Tillery.
 
Edgar said:
So. A lineman in the first is a "probable" upgrade over a third round pick? OK. He better be. You do him a disservice by calling him average I think. Thats all I am saying. As I said, you can't just raise up a guy that can do all the things he does well from out of nowhere. You think Tillery, a first round pick is going to come in and hold up at 5tech? he won't. he gets regularly moved by college guards one on one in the run game. He is going to set the edge against NFL tackles? he is going to be responsible for two gaps and hold up a guard/tackle? Does he show the ability to hold up a lineman and shed? The answer is no to all three and if you want him in round one and expect him to play 5, the answer needs to be yes.

you're under selling Wormley. And you're right; we do need interior rushers but I wouldn't take it solely out on Wormley without taking into account the things he is so good at.
Click to expand...
Fuck all this talk about 5tech, draft Tillery and put him at 3tech where he belongs.

First of all if we draft a guy to play 5tech in the first I’ll be pissed, second if we draft Jerry Tillery and once again force a great player into a role he doesn’t fit then I will give up on harbaugh and pin our recent draft failures on his inability to place players properly.

All this to say... we won’t draft Tillery... sadly
 
Edgar said:
Wormley has translated to the NFL exactly as they hoped. He has improved in fact. He is great against the run, assignment sound always, good with his hands, very, very difficult to move, has high football IQ, great effort, is versatile, absolutely CAN win one on one vs. guard by way of hands and sheer technique, and most importantly, he plays with consistently tremendous leverage. He will rarely lose that battle.
These sort of skills are not run of the mill or hum. Not by a long stretch. You simply cannot just raise guys up from stones that can play/understand how to play at his level.
If you could, then Belichik wouldn't have Guy so heavy in his rotation. I understand you would like an end that can do all this AND get you 8-10.
I didn't like the warmly pick initially ( wanted Hunt) but I disagree thoroughly about how valuable a player he is right at this moment.
Click to expand...
I agree with you and although I would have liked other players more in the 3rd round of the 2017 draft, I didn't mind the Wormley pick at all. I definitely was one of the few players that saw a good player with high IQ that had plenty of upside. I completely disagree with Lost and have had conversations about this as well. It's called a difference of opinion, but when you watch the tape, you see that Wormley is a good player and had a major leap from year one to two. He wasn't used much in year one, but last year he was used quite often. I'm looking forward to see him in year three.
 
Last edited:
per ravens twitter: We will make an announcement regarding a player today at a 2.30pm press conference.
Who do you guys think is getting an extension? Stanley, Judon, Tucker or Pierce?
 
cdp said:
per ravens twitter: We will make an announcement regarding a player today at a 2.30pm press conference.
Who do you guys think is getting an extension? Stanley, Judon, Tucker or Pierce?
Click to expand...

Going to take a guess and say Judon. He's been pretty active on Twitter recently talking about contracts.
 
cdp said:
per ravens twitter: We will make an announcement regarding a player today at a 2.30pm press conference.
Who do you guys think is getting an extension? Stanley, Judon, Tucker or Pierce?
Click to expand...

Did Pierce sign his tender yet? I'm going to guess we hear something about Pierce and maybe they've locked him up long term.
 
cdp said:
per ravens twitter: We will make an announcement regarding a player today at a 2.30pm press conference.
Who do you guys think is getting an extension? Stanley, Judon, Tucker or Pierce?
Click to expand...
Hmm, Stanley's 5th year option was just picked up, so I don't think he'll be a priority for an extension yet. I'm going to guess Judon.

Hopefully it isn't another Orr situation.
 
SepticeyePoe said:
Hmm, Stanley's 5th year option was just picked up, so I don't think he'll be a priority for an extension yet. I'm going to guess Judon.

Hopefully it isn't another Orr situation.
Click to expand...
No it's not :)
Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter
Ravens are giving kicker Justin Tucker a four-year, $23.05 million extension, including $12.5 million fully guaranteed in the first two years and an $8 million signing bonus, per source. All records for a kicker. Tucker tied to Baltimore through the 2023 season.
 
cdp said:
No it's not :)
Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter
Ravens are giving kicker Justin Tucker a four-year, $23.05 million extension, including $12.5 million fully guaranteed in the first two years and an $8 million signing bonus, per source. All records for a kicker. Tucker tied to Baltimore through the 2023 season.
Click to expand...
I hate this team. He’s fucking trash. What are we doing? What tangible value does he bring to the franchise? I’m a better kicker than he is

SZN over
 
All seriousness that’s a good move. It may look like a lot of money, but remember. BRowns have a better kicker first two weeks. Playoffs. Steelers? Same deal. Bears? Probably move on the the super bowl.

Tucker is one of those guys you pay whatever he wants. It’s not often a kicker is an elite player... but Tucker is
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top