Eric DeCosta Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

Also, if you had taken the time to read any of what I said, Metcalf does way more than "just go deep". Just tells me all I needed to know, you didn't watch him. Metcalf doesn't run a complete tree like an Antonio Brown but if you draft him to do that, congrats, you've failed. Metcalf, when given the opportunity(which was more than anything his biggest issue in college. That scheme was bad and misutilized him). He's good at posts, slants, curls, go's, and screens, and is a good run blocker and is good at contested grabs. There have been several all pro WRs over the past decade with a limited route tree with a similar skill set. And even then, there were several opportunities where Metcalf was open over the middle, and ran the right route. Hell, Megatron, easily the most dominant WR(and arguably offensive player) of the decade only ran 4 routes most of the time. Those exact same four. And he actually plays as fast as he ran. I'd argue that he's actually better than good, he's damn near elite on the field with some of his traits

If he goes to the wrong team, he's going to bust hard. But if he goes to a team that will maximize the gifts he does have, he could be a monster.

Hakeem Butler is an inconsistent route runner that has arguably the worst hands in the entire draft, who doesn't play nearly as fast as his 40 time would indicate, is a more-than-occasional body catcher. You want your combine warrior, there he is. I've seen this movie too many times. At least Metcalf when given the chance actually made plays on the fucking ball more often then not.

Metcalf May do more than go deep, but he isn’t necessarily good at the rest of it, i literally do not see anything other than a faster jaelen strong with metcalf, maybe a better YAC threat than strong, but the stiffness and lack of fluidity are very real and these things lead to telegraphed play and easily jumped passes. He’s always gonna lose the upper hand and will always have to make up for it using size and strength, so yeah if he can be mike Evans and say fuck the stiffness I’m just gonna bully everybody I face, then fine, but that shit rarely works out, and even mike Evans was shut down by a top tier pair of corners despite being much taller and larger than either of them(referring to jimmy and marlon btw).

Butler has shaky hands, but you don’t have the RIDICULOUS production he had and quality film to back up the stats if you just flat out can’t catch/can’t play, butler is better than metcalf in absolutely every facet except for the concentration drops. Butler uses space and creates space very well for a man of his size, you simply don’t see receivers of his stature showing a commitment to being a quality route runner in college, butler gives the little jabs and stabs pre-break, he plants and cuts, he adjusts direction for leverage, he is wide open far more frequent than metcalf is, which is a big indicator considering butler and Montgomery are the only quality players Iowa St has and metcalf has 2 other nfl prospects at wr drawing attention, so while butler draws more attention than metcalf he is still separating much more frequently, it’s not a coincidence, you see the subtleties in butlers game, you don’t see it with metcalf.

I can no longer get on board with big receivers who are so stiff that they will constantly Telegraph routes, you need some fluidity and more than just a big body and big plays and high potential for me. If he at least showed the ability to change direction well without the chopping and the need to decelerate then I could overlook everything else, but that is a damning trait for me.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Metcalf May do more than go deep, but he isn’t necessarily good at the rest of it, i literally do not see anything other than a faster jaelen strong with metcalf, maybe a better YAC threat than strong, but the stiffness and lack of fluidity are very real and these things lead to telegraphed play and easily jumped passes. He’s always gonna lose the upper hand and will always have to make up for it using size and strength, so yeah if he can be mike Evans and say fuck the stiffness I’m just gonna bully everybody I face, then fine, but that shit rarely works out, and even mike Evans was shut down by a top tier pair of corners despite being much taller and larger than either of them(referring to jimmy and marlon btw).

Butler uses space and creates space very well for a man of his size, you simply don’t see receivers of his stature showing a commitment to being a quality route runner in college, butler gives the little jabs and stabs pre-break, he plants and cuts, he adjusts direction for leverage

AND SO DOES METCALF. God good stop making gross overgeneralizations with prospects. You do this all the fucking time, most notably when you compared Hayden Hurst to Crockett Gillmore and they couldn't be more different. You couldn't have made it any more obvious that you haven't watched enough of him.

Watch the Kollmann video since you clearly haven't watched as much tape as you should have to come to a decision. He's way better than you're giving him credit for. On the field he does run those routes well, and the tape supports that. Hell, even the WR combine drills for Metcalf looked really good when he was out there catching passes. Didn't look stiff as a board when asked to run slants, curls, etc. And he plays that fast with the pads on too. He tracks the deep ball well. He's a monster with contested grabs who has good body positioning. He's a good run blocker. To say he's nothing more than a one trick pony isn't a disagreeing opinion, it's an ignorant lie.

He's a risk but if we're going to be cowards who don't take those risks then we need a new FO. Sure, if the Bengals or Redskins draft him, Metcalf will bust in all likelihood. But if it's someone like the Packers or Steelers we should all be quaking in our boots and shitting our pants.



If you won't listen to me, fine. Listen to someone who used to actually be a scout for an NFL team, but makes way more money on Youtube.

 

[Grim]

@JoeyFlex5 and @Lost_In_Translation

I hate to tell you this but I’m pretty sure both Metcalf and Butler already have agents boys.

 

[Oldfaithful]

@JoeyFlex5 and @Lost_In_Translation

I hate to tell you this but I’m pretty sure both Metcalf and Butler already have agents boys.

Bfd. Engaged ain’t married

 

[JoeyFlex5]

AND SO DOES METCALF. God good stop making gross overgeneralizations with prospects. You do this all the fucking time, most notably when you compared Hayden Hurst to Crockett Gillmore and they couldn't be more different. You couldn't have made it any more obvious that you haven't watched enough of him.

Watch the Kollmann video since you clearly haven't watched as much tape as you should have to come to a decision. He's way better than you're giving him credit for. On the field he does run those routes well, and the tape supports that. Hell, even the WR combine drills for Metcalf looked really good when he was out there catching passes. Didn't look stiff as a board when asked to run slants, curls, etc. And he plays that fast with the pads on too. He tracks the deep ball well. He's a monster with contested grabs who has good body positioning. He's a good run blocker. To say he's nothing more than a one trick pony isn't a disagreeing opinion, it's an ignorant lie.

He's a risk but if we're going to be cowards who don't take those risks then we need a new FO. Sure, if the Bengals or Redskins draft him, Metcalf will bust in all likelihood. But if it's someone like the Packers or Steelers we should all be quaking in our boots and shitting our pants.



If you won't listen to me, fine. Listen to someone who used to actually be a scout for an NFL team, but makes way more money on Youtube.

You’re right, I haven’t watched a ton of film on him, I haven’t watched a ton of film on anyone this year because with taking on a shitload more responsibility at work and buying a house I’ve had almost no time, but I HAVE watched film on him, and when I see things in a player that really turn me off and I generally don’t like the tape, I stop watching and look for guys I like.

And yeah I changed my tune on hayden hurst, and frankly the Crockett comparison came from his junior year before he decided to return to school, I made that eval on him in 2018 but going off of memory of the 2017 tape I watched, i changed my tune once I dove into the film again and jogged my memory. I’m pounding the table a lot less this year because I don’t have the time to watch tape, but some prospects have intrigued me so much that I’m going back and watching more, butler is one of those guys, I’ve never watched his tape and not been impressed even with the drops.

Another guy who’s been intriguing me is Parris Campbell and I’ve been wanting to study him a lot more

 

[rossihunter2]

Another guy who’s been intriguing me is Parris Campbell and I’ve been wanting to study him a lot more

really interesting evaluation and really fun to watch on tape

 

[Ludy51]

Bfd. Engaged ain’t married

Just 'cause there's a goalie....

 

[RavensMania]

Justin Bethel was a 2 yr 4m deal. Another nice contract.

 

[gtalk12]

Someone on YouTube said the reason we did not pay CJ was because we had Peanut and they proceeded to show me clips of this year and what he did.

 

[RavensMania]

Someone on YouTube said the reason we did not pay CJ was because we had Peanut and they proceeded to show me clips of this year and what he did.

hahahaha, yeah right.

 

[balfan23]

Not sure I’d love metcalf at 22 (albeit he’s definitely going that high or higher) - but philosophically I’m pretty opposite - OL is a need but WR is a much bigger need and where we’re picking is probably more likely to be BPA than OL so I’ve got no problem with double-dipping at wr early - in fact I’d welcome it and even encourage it

I think there is no doubt we come away with WR and OL in this draft. The question is when these positions are selected. If we pick OL at 22 (which I don't think we're picking ANYONE at 22 due to trade back) the dude better be Yanda's heir apparent.

The sense I have is we would want to go WR early as I think we've managed to find good OL value in the 3rd and later. We've not had any luck finding any WR value at any place in the draft. But other than Perriman, we've not attempted to select WR early in years. Our attempts to fill WR through mid-late round picks have yielded virtually nothing.

 

[rossihunter2]

I think there is no doubt we come away with WR and OL in this draft. The question is when these positions are selected. If we pick OL at 22 (which I don't think we're picking ANYONE at 22 due to trade back) the dude better be Yanda's heir apparent.

The sense I have is we would want to go WR early as I think we've managed to find good OL value in the 3rd and later. We've not had any luck finding any WR value at any place in the draft. But other than Perriman, we've not attempted to select WR early in years. Our attempts to fill WR through mid-late round picks have yielded virtually nothing.

yeah chris moore is our best draft pick at wr since torrey smith... we've drafted only 1 starter at the position since 2011 (and even then while he was mostly good in baltimore he's been pretty bad for the majority of his career)

crazy to think about lol

but yeah we've drafted only 2 wrs in the first 2 days of the draft since the 2005 draft (where we got mark clayton)
that's absurd - this idea that we cant draft wrs tbh mostly just comes from us never taking a shot on one anywhere in the first 3 rounds - the steelers are always thought of as great at drafting wrs but honestly they just take more shots... they've drafted more wrs in the first 3 rounds in the last 4 years as the ravens have in the last 14...

it really is a lottery but you cant win the lottery if you dont buy a ticket - and at wr the ravens just havent bought any tickets

honestly we're going to have to make a concerted effort to invest in the position in the draft, probably over a period of multiple years just adding a player every year or so in the same way we do it with OL and DL every year too (and maybe even corner now) - that's why having so many picks is important because it means we can add depth to those positions every year and it doesnt matter if 1 or 2 end up being misses because we're constantly adding players - but we also have capital to go after positions and players we like on top - i honestly think we should be doing that with OL, DL, corner and wr almost every year - but for that to work we have to make an initial investment in wr (much like we did at TE in 2018)

 

[RavensMania]

yeah chris moore is our best draft pick at wr since torrey smith... we've drafted only 1 starter at the position since 2011 (and even then while he was mostly good in baltimore he's been pretty bad for the majority of his career)

crazy to think about lol

but yeah we've drafted only 2 wrs in the first 2 days of the draft since the 2005 draft (where we got mark clayton)
that's absurd - this idea that we cant draft wrs tbh mostly just comes from us never taking a shot on one anywhere in the first 3 rounds - the steelers are always thought of as great at drafting wrs but honestly they just take more shots... they've drafted more wrs in the first 3 rounds in the last 4 years as the ravens have in the last 14...

it really is a lottery but you cant win the lottery if you dont buy a ticket - and at wr the ravens just havent bought any tickets

honestly we're going to have to make a concerted effort to invest in the position in the draft, probably over a period of multiple years just adding a player every year or so in the same way we do it with OL and DL every year too (and maybe even corner now) - that's why having so many picks is important because it means we can add depth to those positions every year and it doesnt matter if 1 or 2 end up being misses because we're constantly adding players - but we also have capital to go after positions and players we like on top - i honestly think we should be doing that with OL, DL, corner and wr almost every year - but for that to work we have to make an initial investment in wr (much like we did at TE in 2018)

I've said this over and over again. We only drafted two WRs in the first three rounds in Joe Flacco's time in Baltimore. Perriman and Torrey Smith Now that's absolutely crazy.

 

[rossihunter2]

I've said this over and over again. We only drafted two WRs in the first three rounds in Joe Flacco's time in Baltimore. Perriman and Torrey Smith Now that's absolutely crazy.

last year i did the numbers on receivers in general also - still a pretty unflattering number - and i think that's maybe what we're going to see now (or at least i hope but all the indications within the building are that we want to add people at the position and get young talent too) - yes other positions are important too but in the 2019 nfl it is untenable to not have a passing game and be successful no matter how much you emphasise running the ball

also id like to correct myself - i was wrong - we've drafted only 2 wrs in the first 2 days of the draft since 2007 (not 2005 as i said originally) where we got Yamon Figurs

 

[Willbacker]

I think there is no doubt we come away with WR and OL in this draft. The question is when these positions are selected. If we pick OL at 22 (which I don't think we're picking ANYONE at 22 due to trade back) the dude better be Yanda's heir apparent.

The sense I have is we would want to go WR early as I think we've managed to find good OL value in the 3rd and later. We've not had any luck finding any WR value at any place in the draft. But other than Perriman, we've not attempted to select WR early in years. Our attempts to fill WR through mid-late round picks have yielded virtually nothing.

Thing is none of these WR's make you say I gotta have him. We should really go olineman. Way better class for that and a sure bonafide starter.

 

[balfan23]

Thing is none of these WR's make you say I gotta have him. We should really go olineman. Way better class for that and a sure bonafide starter.

That’s the tough thing about skill positions... if any of them make you say I gotta have him - they are a top 10-15 pick. Yeah if a stud o lineman falls to us then great but the dude will need to be an absolute plug in starter.

I mean we need WR help pretty badly so where is that coming from ? Might get one left over FA or a cast off that’s worth grabbing but we need more than that. Who knows maybe we’ll just throw 3 TEs on the field.

 

[Adreme]

last year i did the numbers on receivers in general also - still a pretty unflattering number - and i think that's maybe what we're going to see now (or at least i hope but all the indications within the building are that we want to add people at the position and get young talent too) - yes other positions are important too but in the 2019 nfl it is untenable to not have a passing game and be successful no matter how much you emphasise running the ball

also id like to correct myself - i was wrong - we've drafted only 2 wrs in the first 2 days of the draft since 2007 (not 2005 as i said originally) where we got Yamon Figurs

When I look at the WR position I say "name the top 5-7 WRs and tell me how many rings they have?" Even Julio I think is only one with a SB appearance.

I can't do that for QB, even corners (though that position has a lot of debate), safeties, OLine, etc. there isn't a perfect correlation but the best players at those positions generally win, but with WR they just lose constantly.

I honestly think WR is the most overvalued and overpaid position on the football team. WRs and RBs are a dime a dozen and not worth investing real capital in.

 

[RavensMania]

When I look at the WR position I say "name the top 5-7 WRs and tell me how many rings they have?" Even Julio I think is only one with a SB appearance.

I can't do that for QB, even corners (though that position has a lot of debate), safeties, OLine, etc. there isn't a perfect correlation but the best players at those positions generally win, but with WR they just lose constantly.

I honestly think WR is the most overvalued and overpaid position on the football team. WRs and RBs are a dime a dozen and not worth investing real capital in.

Maybe not winning a super bowl, but the teams that generally have good offenses have a very good WR. They don't have to be number 1 WRs as most teams in the league do not have a true #1. That being said if a team has two or three WRs that are capable of playing at #2 level and build the other parts of the team then they will most likely be better off.

 

[RaineV1]

When I look at the WR position I say "name the top 5-7 WRs and tell me how many rings they have?" Even Julio I think is only one with a SB appearance.

I can't do that for QB, even corners (though that position has a lot of debate), safeties, OLine, etc. there isn't a perfect correlation but the best players at those positions generally win, but with WR they just lose constantly.

I honestly think WR is the most overvalued and overpaid position on the football team. WRs and RBs are a dime a dozen and not worth investing real capital in.

Antonio Brown was also in a SB.

 

[Adreme]

Antonio Brown was also in a SB.

As a rookie in a year when he had 16 catches for about 200 yards. So basically when he wasn't a top 5 receiver was the only time his team was successful which if anything enhances my point that WRs do not matter.