2019 WR Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

You make it sound like pick 22 is great value for a blue chip.
AJ brown is a day 1 contributor. Already the best route runner in the class.
I would probably prefer a interior Oline before him but if we do go WR, AJs my guy.

Chris lindstrom is a blue chip guard, elgton Jenkins and Garrett Bradbury and Erik McCoy are all potential blue chip centers, Samuel is a better route runner than brown, and while brown may be a day 1 contributor he is little more than a possession receiver and big slot, i don’t wanna have 3 guys doing the same thing in brown, Andrews, and hurst, big bodied sure handed route runners from the slot. I want a guy with vertical speed and quickness to beat press

 

[Cville-Raven]

I was feeling the same way but started doubting they'd want to draft and depend on another prospect with a high drop rate. Especially considering they've voiced their concerns about how they've previously scouted wideout prospects. I feel they go for a more sure handed prospect when they do turn in their draft card. However, Butler is an intriguing prospect with unlimited upside and they may still take the chance.

I could see drafting Butler as eye rolling for many and I get why, but man I still wouldn’t fault them. There’s a lot to like about him.

 

[Davesta]

One of the ravens 30 visits used on a small school WR, Reggie white jr.

Not bad measurables: White, the son of former Chargers and Patriots defensive lineman Reggie White Sr., ran a 4.45-second 40-yard dash and a 6.77-second 3-cone drill. He also posted a 37.5-inch vertical jump and a 10-foot broad jump

 

[rossihunter2]

Penny Hart tested really poorly at his pro day

poor size - that's fine - we knew that already
poor top end speed - that's not ideal but can be worked around (and obviously maybe he plays faster)
poor explosion - now this is a problem for a smaller guy who's game is predicated on short-area quickness
poor agility - in combination this is pretty problematic also

he's got no length - he's short and has short arms so he has to get more open but this athletic profile is not a good look to suggest to teams he'll be able to do that against nfl corners

this is the kind of testing that could send a guy undrafted...

 

[Willbacker]

Penny Hart tested really poorly at his pro day

poor size - that's fine - we knew that already
poor top end speed - that's not ideal but can be worked around (and obviously maybe he plays faster)
poor explosion - now this is a problem for a smaller guy who's game is predicated on short-area quickness
poor agility - in combination this is pretty problematic also

he's got no length - he's short and has short arms so he has to get more open but this athletic profile is not a good look to suggest to teams he'll be able to do that against nfl corners

this is the kind of testing that could send a guy undrafted...

Hate to ask but what is RAS??

 

[rossihunter2]

Hate to ask but what is RAS??

Relative athletic score - it's a combined score out of 10 and adjusts weighting for different position groups - if you're interested give it a google because its got historical data going back 30+ years arranged by position group also

for wrs for example there are 2 10.00s and one of them is Calvin Johnson

this year's scores are still being compiled and are not split into position groups (or added into the combined table for all years yet) but here is the list so far:

https://relativeathleticscores.com/2019/03/15/2019-draft-class-ras/

it's been updated within the last hour so should be updated with most of the pro days so far

 

[rossihunter2]

for contrast here's DK Metcalf's

was on his way to a 10 before those agility scores

 

[JoeyFlex5]

for contrast here's DK Metcalf's

was on his way to a 10 before those agility scores

Still shocking he was able to score that high. Considering the position he plays you would think shuttle and 3 cone are weighed much heavier than they are

 

[rossihunter2]

Still shocking he was able to score that high. Considering the position he plays you would think shuttle and 3 cone are weighed much heavier than they are

the rest of his athletic profile are so incredible that 2 scores wont pull the whole thing down that far - i think he was ~9.95 before the agility drills which pulled him down by quite a lot - took him from clearly 1st in wrs in RAS to somewhere around 5-10 range i think

ultimately this is just another evaluative tool - not indicative per se of any actual success - just interesting
a big flaw obviously is it doesnt differentiate for body type - being taller and heavier (up to a certain point) is going to get you scored higher which in the modern nfl is not a real indicator of success necessarily

guys like deebo samuel and sub-6-foot receivers are likely to be underscored comparatively

honestly the reason the weighting feels off is probably only because there are far more explosion datasets than there are for agility

 

[JoeyFlex5]

the rest of his athletic profile are so incredible that 2 scores wont pull the whole thing down that far - i think he was ~9.95 before the agility drills which pulled him down by quite a lot - took him from clearly 1st in wrs in RAS to somewhere around 5-10 range i think

ultimately this is just another evaluative tool - not indicative per se of any actual success - just interesting
a big flaw obviously is it doesnt differentiate for body type - being taller and heavier (up to a certain point) is going to get you scored higher which in the modern nfl is not a real indicator of success necessarily

guys like deebo samuel and sub-6-foot receivers are likely to be underscored comparatively

honestly the reason the weighting feels off is probably only because there are far more explosion datasets than there are for agility

I just value change of direction and explosion in and out of breaks and speed control so much more than size and speed

 

[rossihunter2]

I just value change of direction and explosion in and out of breaks and speed control so much more than size and speed

i think they all have value - but honestly i agree with you - im not sure how exactly they weight it for each position - but if they are equally rated then inherently because there's fewer agility tests vs straight explosion tests that the weighting will naturally pull towards size/speed candidates which is frustrating

its just a tool to use - a comparative tool for certain prospects - it only really matters i think if you're really low or really high on the scale

 

[RavensMania]

Get a load of this from RSR

https://russellstreetreport.com/2019/03/28/nfl-draft/the-ravens-best-wr-option-at-22/

 

[rossihunter2]

Get a load of this from RSR

https://russellstreetreport.com/2019/03/28/nfl-draft/the-ravens-best-wr-option-at-22/

hahaha - the problem is he's describing the player without using the tape - as much as we want we cant play with 4 slot receivers and no wrs on a consistent basis - this works logically only if he can play outside on a consistent basis because while you can never have too many playmakers, snead, hurst and andrews already play variations of the position fant would come and play for us - would be an odd pick if we took him

also looking at the comps he put in the article i cant believe i missed this but hakeem butler has huge hands - like actually enormous

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I think fant could be a legitimate WR actually and I can’t believe I haven’t thought of him at all.. he’s runs like a goddamn gazelle and is built like a tank and separates very naturally.... I mean it isn’t the WORST idea in the world. If mike Evans can be a top shelf WR in this league I don’t see what makes Noah fant unable to be a WR

 

[RavensMania]

hahaha - the problem is he's describing the player without using the tape - as much as we want we cant play with 4 slot receivers and no wrs on a consistent basis - this works logically only if he can play outside on a consistent basis because while you can never have too many playmakers, snead, hurst and andrews already play variations of the position fant would come and play for us - would be an odd pick if we took him

also looking at the comps he put in the article i cant believe i missed this but hakeem butler has huge hands - like actually enormous

I just posted the article because I thought it was funny and no way are we drafting another TE this year. Atleast in the early rounds. Yes, I've noticed the huge hands that Butler has. It's quite possible he ends up the best receiver in this class, as long as he solves his drop issues.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I just posted the article because I thought it was funny and no way are we drafting another TE this year. Atleast in the early rounds. Yes, I've noticed the huge hands that Butler has. It's quite possible he ends up the best receiver in this class, as long as he solves his drop issues.

If he drops the ball less, and can pick up the playbooks well, I think he’s gotta be the best in the class. The drops are a huge issue but man he does everything else so well, like he’s not just a H/W/S project, he’s a legit receiver who just needs to get his damn hands together. If not for the drops he’s probably a top 10 pick

 

[Davesta]

AJ Brown is just smooth.

https://www.panthers.com/video/best-of-ole-miss-pro-day

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Went back to watching kelvin harmon... every time I stop watching him I lose hype for him and other guys start to creep up, but when I jog my memory and watch him again he jumps back up to my top wr.

One thing a noticed just now was that Ryan Finley, with the wr corps he’s had, should have been one of the most prolific passers in the country, harmon, Meyers, and emezie are straight ballers and Finley did them no favors, Finley often would throw it right to the defender who was near harmon and in a play where better placement could be a catch, harmon would have to play db instead. On plays where Finley put it at least away from the db harmon seems to come down with it basically every time, he makes some of the most spectacular catches in this class, and as a route runner he is very nuanced and smart, watch his tape against Clemson to see how he sets up dbs, he seems to pick up on how the defense is gonna play him and he uses head and shoulder turns and choppy feet to force a jump, and then he separates, he wins leverage every time off the snap, he’s not the shiftiest or most explosive guy but in short spaces he has very quick feet and uses them well. He’s just a natural nuanced route runner and the best catcher in the class is between him and arcega-Whiteside. As a route runner he reminds me of Michael Thomas, and as a catcher he reminds me of boldin.

And the best 2 things about harmon for the ravens are this: the biggest need from a receiver for us is winning 1v1, harmon can beat single coverage, so when the box is stacked and we need a guy to just beat the corner on the sideline harmon can do it and in more ways than one, he can separate against single coverage and I believe he can play the jumpball against most nfl corners. And the other thing is blocking, he is a finisher on the outside and uses length, strength, and great feet to position and latch on early and drive guys out of the lane.

He may not be a perennial pro bowler, and on this team he won’t be getting 1k a year, but I think it’s entirely possible that this guy can get us 800 a year with 4-6 TDs playing the X, and that’s exactly what we’re looking for.

 

[RavensMania]

Went back to watching kelvin harmon... every time I stop watching him I lose hype for him and other guys start to creep up, but when I jog my memory and watch him again he jumps back up to my top wr.

One thing a noticed just now was that Ryan Finley, with the wr corps he’s had, should have been one of the most prolific passers in the country, harmon, Meyers, and emezie are straight ballers and Finley did them no favors, Finley often would throw it right to the defender who was near harmon and in a play where better placement could be a catch, harmon would have to play db instead. On plays where Finley put it at least away from the db harmon seems to come down with it basically every time, he makes some of the most spectacular catches in this class, and as a route runner he is very nuanced and smart, watch his tape against Clemson to see how he sets up dbs, he seems to pick up on how the defense is gonna play him and he uses head and shoulder turns and choppy feet to force a jump, and then he separates, he wins leverage every time off the snap, he’s not the shiftiest or most explosive guy but in short spaces he has very quick feet and uses them well. He’s just a natural nuanced route runner and the best catcher in the class is between him and arcega-Whiteside. As a route runner he reminds me of Michael Thomas, and as a catcher he reminds me of boldin.

And the best 2 things about harmon for the ravens are this: the biggest need from a receiver for us is winning 1v1, harmon can beat single coverage, so when the box is stacked and we need a guy to just beat the corner on the sideline harmon can do it and in more ways than one, he can separate against single coverage and I believe he can play the jumpball against most nfl corners. And the other thing is blocking, he is a finisher on the outside and uses length, strength, and great feet to position and latch on early and drive guys out of the lane.

He may not be a perennial pro bowler, and on this team he won’t be getting 1k a year, but I think it’s entirely possible that this guy can get us 800 a year with 4-6 TDs playing the X, and that’s exactly what we’re looking for.

He's been one of my favorites from day one.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

He's been one of my favorites from day one.

He had to grow on me at first, but yeah every time I go back to the tape he jumps back up to my #1. I’ve let Hakeem butler and deebo creep into my #1 and then I watch harmon again and I’m like nahhh.

I’d love to see harmon fall because he isn’t the flashiest guy and see us trade up to snag him in the second or something but I doubt it.