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Welcome to Baltimore: Jaylon Ferguson and Miles Boykin
- Thread starter Oldfaithful
- Start date
i dont know what you've been watching the last couple of years to call ansah an upgrade - at best he's a high upside low risk free agent who could potentially give us some pass rush help but you're severely undervaluing Judon (who is not being overvalued by the ravens or the fanbase - no one's saying he's one of the best edge guys in the league) who's good at a lot of different things and also allows our defence to be versatile on 3rd downs - there's a reason we're still adding edge rushers and its because we dont think judon can carry the pass rushing load but that doesnt make in a replaceable piece who's not valuable - he's a perfect piece in Wink's scheme who also has the ability (which is rare around the NFL) to absolutely take over a game - he's not a consistent pass rusher but when he's on he's dominant
so you're suggesting we trade judon (for likely less than his eventual comp pick would be if he were to leave via free agency) for a player who's older and less good than judon (and still on the market for a reason - just like ansah)
that's just bad business - why would we trade judon now? the only benefit is we'd get the draft pick a year earlier but its also likely a lower pick than we'd get as a comp (and as things stand we've also got at least 8 and possibly 9 picks in the 2020 draft already)
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
A lot of those games that he’s “taken over” had gimmie sacks that even Za’Darius would’ve finished. When he “takes over” games, he’s not consistently dominating his tackles, our blitz packages are benefitting him heavily. I’d be more concerned if he wasn’t finishing on those.
And yes he is. When people call him an occasional game wrecker, it’s really inaccurate. It’s an overstatement. Chandler Jones is a streaky guy who can absolutely take over games and win them for you. Judon isn’t.
1. If Dante Fowler who’s had less production can get more than just a measly comp pick, so can Judon.
Send him to the trade block and see if some team is dumb enough to send a second or early third. Both would be better than a potential comp pick. If not let him walk.
We are literally better off next year letting Judon walk, and going to pay Ngakoue or Jack(Jacksonville can’t afford to pay both, and Ngakoue is a Maryland native and just drafted Allen who could be their replacement in mind).
Charm City
Pro Bowler
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
If teams are going no huddle, 9/10 it’s because they need to pass and gain momentum. Having guys who can pin their ears back becomes more beneficial. I agree versatility is key, but we do have our front 3, and all of them are good run defenders anyways.
If our offense can figure it out, employing a team of pass rushing specialists is nothing but beneficial
ok let's take the 3 sacks in a row game that's the most obvious and recent example of this:
1st sack is on 4th and 8: the ravens rush 4 with CJ spying the back, Urban gets doubled, Sizzle gets pushed well out of the play and ZDS gets chipped, Judon has a great burst off the line and immediately puts the tackle in trouble, he forces his way past the tackle's outside shoulder and forces Carr to step up but fights through the hold and gets to Carr's arm and forces a sack fumble that Sizzle returns for a td - he gets to carr despite carr stepping up in less than 3 seconds despite the hold
2nd sack is on 1st and 10: the ravens rush 4, Pierce gets doubled at the line, bowser gets stonewalled on one edge and ZDS gets held rushing from the middle and flushes carr slighlty, Judon gets the tackle on skates and threatens the outside, engages and rips/swims inside and throws the tackle off balance to swallow carr, this sack takes 3 seconds
3rd sack is on 2nd and 18: the ravens rush 4 (the exact same combo as the last snap), pierce and ZDS take 3 blockers between them but ultimately do nothing in the play, bowser gets pushed out of the play (seems to get surprised by the snap and is slow to react), Judon for the 2nd time in 3 snaps gets the best get off and pulls the exact same move as the 2nd sack where he threatens the outside shoulder and then rips inside as soon as he engages with the tackle and carr has no chance (in fact as carr is getting sacked the tackle is still falling down from being off-balance), this sack takes less than 3 seconds
he had 1v1 opportunities on all 3 snaps but he was not schemed free, the ravens didnt blitz once in these 3 snaps and ZDS only impacted one of the 3 sacks, they were quick developing, dominant sacks that gave the qb no chance and where he obliterated the tackle on all 3 snaps - it's the first time ive properly noticed judon's burst too - he was consistently the first one off the line and furthest in the backfield post-snap
here's effective over smaller periods of games and has not done it over full seasons - in 2017 he came on strong and in 2018 this is what PFF had to say about him after week 14 against the chiefs...
he's not consistent but he is an absolute handful when he's on and the film's there to show it - he's unlikely going to be considered up there with the best pass rush specialists because that's not what he is but he's also not lacking in that department
Fowler went for a 3rd comp - he was literally traded for what we would hopefully get from Judon if he left in free agency - add onto that the fact that he was a top 5 pick (even if that's not the level he's played to) and the prices always get inflated
Judon on this contract is worth way more to us this year than a 3rd round pick (which we'll get if he leaves in free agency anyway) because there's no way a team gives us a 2 for him given he only has a year left on his deal
Judon is certainly inconsistent, but let's not act like he's just been getting lucky. He has his stretches where he's one of the better players on the field and others where he's non-existent. Still, the 31 other teams in the league would all love to have him. He's a good player.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
We also have harbaugh who ain’t tryna hear nunnadat shit
dude this is literally how the saints beat us - we were dominating their offence until they went hurry up and kept our DL rotation etc. on the field for longer periods of time - it's how we lost that game in the end and we were never far enough ahead that they ever had to do hurry up - it was a decision their coaching staff made to counter-act our defence - and after that offences who got a 2-3 yard gain on first down would instantly go into hurry-up mode if they made any positive momentum on a drive against us because it stopped our substitutions and it prevented us getting dime on the field
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Oh look, Judon dominated Kolton Miller and the other Raiders tackles. I’d be more scarred if he didn’t do that. The Schwartz example is better but again, HE DOESNT TAKE OVER GAMES.
He’s not bad, let’s not label him something he fucking isn’t
He’s not bad, let’s not label him something he fucking isn’t
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Not a valid example to use against my argument. Our team never had an established rushing attack for our defense to ever pin their ears back against New Orleans. And no they weren’t, New Orleans was firing on all cylinders at the start of the game too. A bigger issue that game is that we did not know how to deal with Hill.
With the identity we are setting up, we’d be in a far better position because we’d be dominating clock. And the Saints were doing that before hand and if not for a Tucker missed XP we had a legit chance to beat them. I don’t see how this is valid to the discussion since our identity then isn’t what it is now.
My point still stands.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Let’s also not forget that teams Judon “dominated” were against teams with some truly terrible OTs.
He’s a good player so of course he beat them, but to say he’s been taking over games is incredibly misleading.
He played well, but let’s not label him something he isn’t
He’s a good player so of course he beat them, but to say he’s been taking over games is incredibly misleading.
He played well, but let’s not label him something he isn’t
Charm City
Pro Bowler
How many pass rushers are there in the league that can TAKE OVER a game? Mack, Watt, Donald, who else? I think you think finding a stud pass rusher is easier than it is
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
And a fifth round pick in 2020. Kind of forgotten that part didn’t you? Yup. Got traded for more than just a comp pick.
Add onto the fact that Judon doesn’t have the supposed work ethic baggage that Fowler does, and is a better football player. Yeah. He’d probably get more.
also for anyone that's interested miles boykin seems to be a really thoughtful interviewee - dealt with reporters really well and seems to have a nice self-awareness - big fan so far
https://www.baltimoreravens.com/audio/miles-boykin-talks-about-joining-forces-with-hollywood-brown
https://www.baltimoreravens.com/audio/miles-boykin-talks-about-joining-forces-with-hollywood-brown
except that's just not really how the nfl works
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Judon.... is... not.... a..... stud
And don’t put words into my mouth. He’s a good player, but he doesn’t take over games. That’s misleading given who he’s going up against. That’s not taking anything away from him, I’m just not giving him too much credit.