The Random Thought Thread

[Sami84]

That was like if Trent Richardson switched to defense

Justice Hill had a couple of trent richardson moments last season.

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

Justice Hill had a couple of trent richardson moments last season.

Seems like he had some trouble adjusting to the pro game, but he started to show some improvement towards the end of the season. I know you don't like him, but I could see him improving in year 2.

 

[Sami84]

Seems like he had some trouble adjusting to the pro game, but he started to show some improvement towards the end of the season. I know you don't like him, but I could see him improving in year 2.

For me, it's a question of this

If you're going to draft a RB is he really that much better than what you could find in UDFA pool? Esp taking into account our system.

That's why with Dobbins, while he's a very good football player, would you say he's better value in the 2nd than say Gus Edwards was as an UDFA?

Gus Edwards is a legit running back. I also know that we were on the verge of signing lindsay who's a pro bowler and undrafted

Justice hill better than either of those two or any of the running backs in this league? That's why if you go running back in the first 3-4 rounds, he better have something special because there's the elite running backs and then it's more about scheme than talent.

 

[Sami84]

You have to watch a guy IMO and have 0 doubts if you're drafting in the first 2 rounds ( RB) that he's a kind of talent that you'll not be able to find later on.

 

[rossihunter2]

You have to watch a guy IMO and have 0 doubts if you're drafting in the first 2 rounds ( RB) that he's a kind of talent that you'll not be able to find later on.

the first part of your post was correct, the 2nd part did not make sense given the first part

if you're looking for a safe talent - that doesnt necessarily mean you cant find a player with as high a ceiling (i.e. talent and athletic gifts) later in the draft - but it does mean their floor is higher and they're less likely to flame out of the league

 

[Sami84]

the first part of your post was correct, the 2nd part did not make sense given the first part

if you're looking for a safe talent - that doesnt necessarily mean you cant find a player with as high a ceiling (i.e. talent and athletic gifts) later in the draft - but it does mean their floor is higher and they're less likely to flame out of the league

I read a stat regarding RB's that doesn't seem to correlate but I understand where you're coming from on a conceptual level.

 

[rossihunter2]

I read a stat regarding RB's that doesn't seem to correlate but I understand where you're coming from on a conceptual level.

im talking more generally (not specific to RBs) - obviously there's some difference given the general devaluation of that position in general

having said that - the vast majority of productive backs (or better) have come from earlier picks in recent drafts - guys who get picked later (or go undrafted) are often more 1 dimensional (even if they are really good at that 1 thing e.g. phillip lindsay, tarik cohen, aaron jones, austin ekeler, chris carson, marlon mack)

im looking at the most productive backs in the league and the vast majority were picked in the top 3 rounds (and if not are more 1 dimensional)

in terms of RBs then it would seem that the more you can do the higher you get drafted (as long as you meet a requisite level of talent) which kind of works with what i was saying above that the safer you are the higher you get picked (even if your ceiling might not be as high as the guy who gets picked later - if he's markedly less safe) - as a RB, if you can play all 3 downs you're likely a safer pick

my guess is that's why lots of NFL teams this year had AJ Dillon in the top 7 RBs despite being fairly unspectacular and not thought of highly among media - he's a strong runner who's got good vision and experience as a pass protector... so he's going to be able to play all 3 downs

when all the Ravens execs were talking about RBs - he was the name that came up who surprised me - they talked about taylor, swift, dobbins and edwards-helaire as 1st round type backs and then mentioned a stack of 3 guys that they also liked: Cam Akers, Zack Moss and ... AJ Dillon - that surprised me but thinking about the safeness of the pick in terms of how many snaps can you play early it makes more sense (if you like the runner)

 

[Sami84]

im talking more generally (not specific to RBs) - obviously there's some difference given the general devaluation of that position in general

having said that - the vast majority of productive backs (or better) have come from earlier picks in recent drafts - guys who get picked later (or go undrafted) are often more 1 dimensional (even if they are really good at that 1 thing e.g. phillip lindsay, tarik cohen, aaron jones, austin ekeler, chris carson, marlon mack)

im looking at the most productive backs in the league and the vast majority were picked in the top 3 rounds (and if not are more 1 dimensional)

in terms of RBs then it would seem that the more you can do the higher you get drafted (as long as you meet a requisite level of talent) which kind of works with what i was saying above that the safer you are the higher you get picked (even if your ceiling might not be as high as the guy who gets picked later - if he's markedly less safe) - as a RB, if you can play all 3 downs you're likely a safer pick

my guess is that's why lots of NFL teams this year had AJ Dillon in the top 7 RBs despite being fairly unspectacular and not thought of highly among media - he's a strong runner who's got good vision and experience as a pass protector... so he's going to be able to play all 3 downs

when all the Ravens execs were talking about RBs - he was the name that came up who surprised me - they talked about taylor, swift, dobbins and edwards-helaire as 1st round type backs and then mentioned a stack of 3 guys that they also liked: Cam Akers, Zack Moss and ... AJ Dillon - that surprised me but thinking about the safeness of the pick in terms of how many snaps can you play early it makes more sense (if you like the runner)

Fair enough. I see what you mean.

As far as the main prospects go JT is the most dominant IMO, I don't buy the edwards helaire hype, for me he's a lesser version of dobbins. Swfit will be useful, as he's super shifty, Dobbins has a very high floor, i cant see him not being a number 1 or dominant number 2 at the very worst. Reminds me a bit of something between Ray Rice and McGahee. Zach moss will be a good pro as he's elusive as fck

 

[rossihunter2]

Fair enough. I see what you mean.

As far as the main prospects go JT is the most dominant IMO, I don't buy the edwards helaire hype, for me he's a lesser version of dobbins. Swfit will be useful, as he's super shifty, Dobbins has a very high floor, i cant see him not being a number 1 or dominant number 2 at the very worst. Reminds me a bit of something between Ray Rice and McGahee. Zach moss will be a good pro as he's elusive as fck

outside of JT - all the rest of the top 6 (by NFL team consensus not media consensus) were 3 down type backs - i just find that interesting when we think about the types of players (at any position) who go early

 

[RavensMania]

exactly - the real problem here was the structure of flacco's 1st contract

and with boldin that ultimately was meaningless trading him away - the only quibble i think you could reasonably have is that we only got a 6th rounder but not sure that on a rebuilding team he would have ultimately made any difference if we didnt trade him away... especially with the state of the OL in 2013

not being a fan of the Ravens at that time, I have a question regarding the Flacco contract. I remember Flacco's contract being severely backloaded due to having a really bad cap situation going into the 2013 offseason. I also remember them losing a lot of players because they couldn't keep them.

 

[RavensMania]

Fair enough. I see what you mean.

As far as the main prospects go JT is the most dominant IMO, I don't buy the edwards helaire hype, for me he's a lesser version of dobbins. Swfit will be useful, as he's super shifty, Dobbins has a very high floor, i cant see him not being a number 1 or dominant number 2 at the very worst. Reminds me a bit of something between Ray Rice and McGahee. Zach moss will be a good pro as he's elusive as fck

exactly how I feel. Although I disagree bit about CEH. I like him a lot, especially in KC and how Reid has used backs in the past. I was pissed when they drafted him, even though I had KC taking him in the mock draft.

I do agree Dobbins is the better all around back, especially his vision.

 

[rossihunter2]

not being a fan of the Ravens at that time, I have a question regarding the Flacco contract. I remember Flacco's contract being severely backloaded due to having a really bad cap situation going into the 2013 offseason. I also remember them losing a lot of players because they couldn't keep them.

the first year was kept artificially low which caused the cap hits (by design) to balloon after year 3 - basically creating a situation when he signed where both parties knew they would be back at the negotiating table in year 3 no matter what

the idea i think was that joe and the ravens were basically equal partners at that point because of how important he was because of the position he played and being a franchise qb but it was a poor decision and put the ravens in a bind - couldnt cut him, couldnt let him play out on the deal he was on with those cap hits (those hits wouldnt seem so ridiculous now but obviously the salary cap is a lot higher now), couldnt trade him so literally only had the option to extend

so the 1st contract was so bad it forced us to double-down and give him a 2nd bad contract just because of how the first one was structured

 

[cdp]

the first year was kept artificially low which caused the cap hits (by design) to balloon after year 3 - basically creating a situation when he signed where both parties knew they would be back at the negotiating table in year 3 no matter what

the idea i think was that joe and the ravens were basically equal partners at that point because of how important he was because of the position he played and being a franchise qb but it was a poor decision and put the ravens in a bind - couldnt cut him, couldnt let him play out on the deal he was on with those cap hits (those hits wouldnt seem so ridiculous now but obviously the salary cap is a lot higher now), couldnt trade him so literally only had the option to extend

so the 1st contract was so bad it forced us to double-down and give him a 2nd bad contract just because of how the first one was structured

That's not how I look at it. The first contract had a terrible structure, ok that's on our FO and Joe's decision to play out the final year of his rookie contract. But instead of trying to get out of cap hell we borrowed against our future cap. Instead of tackling a problem you're kicking it down the road. That leads to 8-8 seasons. 2016 Joe came off a torn ACL&MCL and the first thing you do in said offseason: you re-sign him and reward him with yet another badly structured contract.

 

[rossihunter2]

That's not how I look at it. The first contract had a terrible structure, ok that's on our FO and Joe's decision to play out the final year of his rookie contract. But instead of trying to get out of cap hell we borrowed against our future cap. Instead of tackling a problem you're kicking it down the road. That leads to 8-8 seasons. 2016 Joe came off a torn ACL&MCL and the first thing you do in said offseason: you re-sign him and reward him with yet another badly structured contract.

i dont know that we're not saying the same thing lol...

 

[RavensMania]

the first year was kept artificially low which caused the cap hits (by design) to balloon after year 3 - basically creating a situation when he signed where both parties knew they would be back at the negotiating table in year 3 no matter what

the idea i think was that joe and the ravens were basically equal partners at that point because of how important he was because of the position he played and being a franchise qb but it was a poor decision and put the ravens in a bind - couldnt cut him, couldnt let him play out on the deal he was on with those cap hits (those hits wouldnt seem so ridiculous now but obviously the salary cap is a lot higher now), couldnt trade him so literally only had the option to extend

so the 1st contract was so bad it forced us to double-down and give him a 2nd bad contract just because of how the first one was structured

I do remember it being essentially a 3 year deal due to having to restructure, but weren't they forced to keep the numbers low in 2013 due to the amount of cap space the team had? That was my question.

 

[RavensMania]

 

[JoeyFlex5]

do yall think harbaugh has always had an infatuation with mobile qbs and always wanted to coach with one?

he came right in and basically implied that the starting job was troy smiths to lose, when troy smith left we went with tyrod as the backup, after tyrod we went a few years bouncing around backups and signed greg roman, then signed rg3 a few years later, and drafted lamar the same year, and all those years with joe it felt like the team NEVER bought in 100% on him and just wanted to build a defense and run game, and then when lamar comes the team is all in on a mobile qb offense like weve never seen before, like harbaugh finally had "his" pieces in place and "his guy" at qb, and he didnt want to coach a straight dropback passing team

 

[cdp]

i dont know that we're not saying the same thing lol...

I probably meant to reply to a post saying the 1st contract was worse than the 2nd.

 

[Deebo813]

Huh

 

[cdp]

do yall think harbaugh has always had an infatuation with mobile qbs and always wanted to coach with one?

he came right in and basically implied that the starting job was troy smiths to lose, when troy smith left we went with tyrod as the backup, after tyrod we went a few years bouncing around backups and signed greg roman, then signed rg3 a few years later, and drafted lamar the same year, and all those years with joe it felt like the team NEVER bought in 100% on him and just wanted to build a defense and run game, and then when lamar comes the team is all in on a mobile qb offense like weve never seen before, like harbaugh finally had "his" pieces in place and "his guy" at qb, and he didnt want to coach a straight dropback passing team

Who knows... But on the other hand they had to try something different because what we did before obviously didn't work. Harbaugh and Wink redesigned the defense first and one year later they did the same on offense.
I know Zrebiec and other's said we tried to trade up for Lattimore in 2017 but I believe it also could've been for Watson.