The Random Thought Thread

[Simba]

so many needs still on this team this offseason which is a bit of a worry - OL for sure but I think we probably still need CB depth (and DB more generally) and 100% we need to find a WR we can trust on the outside (to allow Hollywood to maybe play more from the slot to create those 2-way go matchups for him)

Im generally against trading high quality picks for expensive players, but I think that’s the only way we’re getting a bonafide WR in his prime around here. Duvernay and Hollywood can certainly be future pieces but man are we terrible at developing these big, but raw prospects. Boykin was a complete nonfactor and could honestly be another day 2 pick that doesn’t see the end of his contract.

 

[rossihunter2]

Im generally against trading high quality picks for expensive players, but I think that’s the only way we’re getting a bonafide WR in his prime around here. Duvernay and Hollywood can certainly be future pieces but man are we terrible at developing these big, but raw prospects. Boykin was a complete nonfactor and could honestly be another day 2 pick that doesn’t see the end of his contract.

i dont get how we still are unable to develop WRs at all - it's an in-house problem that's gone through multiple position coaches and regimes

a couple of years ago i'd put it down to not taking enough shots in the draft and not getting enough talent in to get those hits but we're still not seeing guys who are definitely talented and look like the real deal develop in the way they should

and it's frustrating to see other teams develop similar talents - I can't possibly believe that we're that bad at identifying talent at WR which means it must be a coaching or schematic (or combination of both) issue

 

[Simba]

i dont get how we still are unable to develop WRs at all - it's an in-house problem that's gone through multiple position coaches and regimes

a couple of years ago i'd put it down to not taking enough shots in the draft and not getting enough talent in to get those hits but we're still not seeing guys who are definitely talented and look like the real deal develop in the way they should

and it's frustrating to see other teams develop similar talents - I can't possibly believe that we're that bad at identifying talent at WR which means it must be a coaching or schematic (or combination of both) issue

It really is a problem, especially when you see teams plucking these guys all over the draft and making them into stars. You're going to have some misses and that's okay, but it's just been a rough go here. I know we don't have the most WR friendly offense but we still have to be better - whether that's talent evaluation or development. Guys like Boykin are becoming the norm now... these big and fast guys who have a lot of physical talent, but just never develop. Would love to continue to devote draft resources to find a stud on a rookie contract, but I have 0 confidence we can actually do that. Even Hollywood is looking pretty eh right now even though that's not 100% his fault.

At least Duvernay looks like a find, even if we do have to manufacture touches for him right now. Thank god Willie Snead has stepped up as well or this could be ugly.

 

[rossihunter2]

It really is a problem, especially when you see teams plucking these guys all over the draft and making them into stars. You're going to have some misses and that's okay, but it's just been a rough go here. I know we don't have the most WR friendly offense but we still have to be better - whether that's talent evaluation or development. Guys like Boykin are becoming the norm now... these big and fast guys who have a lot of physical talent, but just never develop. Would love to continue to devote draft resources to find a stud on a rookie contract, but I have 0 confidence we can actually do that. Even Hollywood is looking pretty eh right now even though that's not 100% his fault.

At least Duvernay looks like a find, even if we do have to manufacture touches for him right now. Thank god Willie Snead has stepped up as well or this could be ugly.

my problem is that i think you put duvernay on another team and he's already thought as pretty highly around the league because he likely has more than just 1 manufactured touch a game because he's do dangerous after the catch that you keep going back to that well and try and scheme him open in different ways - i just still dont see us doing that here much

hollywood had a bad game - im disappointed that we havent connected with him this year and there's a bad vibe around him in the passing game right now but as you say it's not all his fault and it's not like he's generally not been playing fairly well because he has

but he hasnt taken the huge leap we all expected he would having had the metal taken out of his foot - i kind of wonder given how he's basically never taking any contact whether he maybe put on a bit too much bulk over the offseason

boykin's been a disappointment for sure - not bad at what he does well - but what he does well wasn't worth the position he was drafted - he's an NFL calibre player but he's not a threat at WR and again hasnt really shown much improvement from his rookie year despite his increased target share and his snaps are decreasing all the time - he feels like more of an auden tate kind of receiver right now who was drafted in the 7th round in 2018 - tbf it's not like many of the receivers drafted after boykin in the 2019 class have done much outside of darius slayton and travis fulgham who've had targets forced their way on bad NFC East teams and scotty miller and hunter renfrow who're both slot guys

 

[Simba]

my problem is that i think you put duvernay on another team and he's already thought as pretty highly around the league because he likely has more than just 1 manufactured touch a game because he's do dangerous after the catch that you keep going back to that well and try and scheme him open in different ways - i just still dont see us doing that here much

hollywood had a bad game - im disappointed that we havent connected with him this year and there's a bad vibe around him in the passing game right now but as you say it's not all his fault and it's not like he's generally not been playing fairly well because he has

but he hasnt taken the huge leap we all expected he would having had the metal taken out of his foot - i kind of wonder given how he's basically never taking any contact whether he maybe put on a bit too much bulk over the offseason

boykin's been a disappointment for sure - not bad at what he does well - but what he does well wasn't worth the position he was drafted - he's an NFL calibre player but he's not a threat at WR and again hasnt really shown much improvement from his rookie year despite his increased target share and his snaps are decreasing all the time - he feels like more of an auden tate kind of receiver right now who was drafted in the 7th round in 2018 - tbf it's not like many of the receivers drafted after boykin in the 2019 class have done much outside of darius slayton and travis fulgham who've had targets forced their way on bad NFC East teams and scotty miller and hunter renfrow who're both slot guys

Agreed. I'm generally against manufactured touches because that shows deeper issues, but I think you have to keep getting the ball in Duvernay's hands. He's one of few that is making an impact and we generally seem content doing one early in the game and then not crossing that bridge again. He got some more usage last night which is good, but I still think we can get a lot more out of him.

Boykin is just frustrating because it's the same story over and over again... we just used a 3rd round pick on this one. A big, raw WR with a lot of physical gifts that we just can't seem to get to put the pieces together. I know different drafts and everything and nothing tangible that we'll ever be able to see, but I feel like if you swapped him with Claypool, Boykin would be tearing it up in Pittsburgh and Claypool would be here doing a whole bunch of nothing. A team like Pittsburgh knows how to evaluate talent at the position AND how to use them, and we seem to be struggling in both areas.

 

[rossihunter2]

Agreed. I'm generally against manufactured touches because that shows deeper issues, but I think you have to keep getting the ball in Duvernay's hands. He's one of few that is making an impact and we generally seem content doing one early in the game and then not crossing that bridge again. He got some more usage last night which is good, but I still think we can get a lot more out of him.

Boykin is just frustrating because it's the same story over and over again... we just used a 3rd round pick on this one. A big, raw WR with a lot of physical gifts that we just can't seem to get to put the pieces together. I know different drafts and everything and nothing tangible that we'll ever be able to see, but I feel like if you swapped him with Claypool, Boykin would be tearing it up in Pittsburgh and Claypool would be here doing a whole bunch of nothing. A team like Pittsburgh knows how to evaluate talent at the position AND how to use them, and we seem to be struggling in both areas.

it has to be something structural though because it's an issue since the franchise has existed through multiple regimes and multiple position coaches and now even 2 GMs (although this one has at least put some capital into the position with a 1st rounder, 2 3rd rounders and a 6th rounder (who we gave up a future 5th to get)

i mean as a question that's probably fairly depressing... who's the best WR that the ravens have developed? Torrey Smith? Mark Clayton?

 

[drjohnnyfever]

Until our WR's gain the understanding that when they are on the side hatches running a go the only place the QB can deliver the ball to them is in, basically, a moving basketball rim about a foot over their head over the sideline hatches, we are in trouble. These guys have got to control the edge of the field! You don't shade closer and closer to the hatches ceding the position to the CB. You cut down your space to make a catch. That INT was a perfect example. Hollywood was tiptoe-ing on the sideline when that ball was thrown. Bad decision by Llamar, but not a bad pass, per se. .

 

[rossihunter2]

Until our WR's gain the understanding that when they are on the side hatches running a go the only place the QB can deliver the ball to them is in, basically, a moving basketball rim about a foot over their head over the sideline hatches, we are in trouble. These guys have got to control the edge of the field! You don't shade closer and closer to the hatches ceding the position to the CB. You cut down your space to make a catch. That INT was a perfect example. Hollywood was tiptoe-ing on the sideline when that ball was thrown. Bad decision by Llamar, but not a bad pass, per se. .

it was a bad decision and a bad pass - we can argue about route running a lot but that clearly was neither a good throw nor a good decision by lamar

 

[Deebo813]

i dont get how we still are unable to develop WRs at all - it's an in-house problem that's gone through multiple position coaches and regimes

a couple of years ago i'd put it down to not taking enough shots in the draft and not getting enough talent in to get those hits but we're still not seeing guys who are definitely talented and look like the real deal develop in the way they should

and it's frustrating to see other teams develop similar talents - I can't possibly believe that we're that bad at identifying talent at WR which means it must be a coaching or schematic (or combination of both) issue

If we were good at developing or drafting wrs that would make us by far the best organization lol.. hollywood, proche, dunervay have some skill there.. i think our problem now is just using them correctly

 

[JAAM]

Do you guys think this is a “sophomore slump” for Lamar or a sign of things to come?

 

[rossihunter2]

Do you guys think this is a “sophomore slump” for Lamar or a sign of things to come?

hard to say - will be easier to evaluate after the season's over - it must be said that he's played fairly well the last 2 games with the OL and rest of the team crumbling around him

rest of 2020 with the OL in shambles and Nick Boyle gone too will be a big test for him to show he can raise up the team around him

 

[JAAM]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ravens...quise-brown-needs-to-step-up-or-sit-down/amp/

Good read about Hollywood

 

[rmcjacket23]

Do you guys think this is a “sophomore slump” for Lamar or a sign of things to come?

I think the bar was set impossibly high based on last season. There's no chance in hell he was ever going to repeat what he did. He's got issues and things to work on, but I also don't think he's like what is holding this team back.

I guess in the grand scheme of things, his "sophomore slump" looks like:
64% comp pct, 4,064 total yards (rushing and passing), 30 TDs, 14 turnovers. That's what he's on pace for. By comparison to his predecessor...

If we were to assume that Joe's best year was 2014 (I think everyone would agree):
62.1% comp pct, 4,056 total yards (rushing and passing), 29 TDs, 15 turnovers.

So basically, Lamar's "sophomore slump" season is basically identical to the absolute best season we saw from Joe Flacco.

 

[JAAM]

I think the bar was set impossibly high based on last season. There's no chance in hell he was ever going to repeat what he did. He's got issues and things to work on, but I also don't think he's like what is holding this team back.

I guess in the grand scheme of things, his "sophomore slump" looks like:
64% comp pct, 4,064 total yards (rushing and passing), 30 TDs, 14 turnovers. That's what he's on pace for. By comparison to his predecessor...

If we were to assume that Joe's best year was 2014 (I think everyone would agree):
62.1% comp pct, 4,056 total yards (rushing and passing), 29 TDs, 15 turnovers.

So basically, Lamar's "sophomore slump" season is basically identical to the absolute best season we saw from Joe Flacco.

Thank you for putting it into perspective. Excellent post.

 

[Simba]

I think the bar was set impossibly high based on last season. There's no chance in hell he was ever going to repeat what he did. He's got issues and things to work on, but I also don't think he's like what is holding this team back.

I guess in the grand scheme of things, his "sophomore slump" looks like:
64% comp pct, 4,064 total yards (rushing and passing), 30 TDs, 14 turnovers. That's what he's on pace for. By comparison to his predecessor...

If we were to assume that Joe's best year was 2014 (I think everyone would agree):
62.1% comp pct, 4,056 total yards (rushing and passing), 29 TDs, 15 turnovers.

So basically, Lamar's "sophomore slump" season is basically identical to the absolute best season we saw from Joe Flacco.

Yeah it's really not that bad from a statistical standpoint. Lamar gets shit on for not having 400 yard passing games and taking things he's got over throwing the ball, but he's still putting up a ton by himself with his arm AND legs. It's not perfect and it's not as good as last year, but it could be a whole hell of a lot worse. And Lamar is part of the problem but he's far from the only problem.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah it's really not that bad from a statistical standpoint. Lamar gets shit on for now having 400 yard passing games and taking things over throwing the ball, but he's still putting up a ton by himself with his arm AND legs. It's not perfect and it's not as good as last year, but it could be a whole hell of a lot worse. And Lamar is part of the problem but he's far from the only problem.

If Joe Flacco had this OC, this group of pass catchers, this running game, and especially, this Oline, this is a 3-6 football team, not a 6-3 football team.

 

[ravenslord]

If Joe Flacco had this OC, this group of pass catchers, this running game, and especially, this Oline, this is a 3-6 football team, not a 6-3 football team.

Completely agree and its true.

 

[JAAM]

Skura’s wife was harassed on social media after the game. Pieces of shits

 

[ravenslord]

Yeah it's really not that bad from a statistical standpoint. Lamar gets shit on for not having 400 yard passing games and taking things he's got over throwing the ball, but he's still putting up a ton by himself with his arm AND legs. It's not perfect and it's not as good as last year, but it could be a whole hell of a lot worse. And Lamar is part of the problem but he's far from the only problem.

I will give Lamar the benefit of the doubt. Hell Skura threw the game to the pats by himself. Stanley and Phillips on IR and Brown not at RT. Yanda gone. They run block ok but pass protection is horrific. Just really bad. Skura honestly should not be playing but we don't have alternatives. Fluker !! LOL Just damn bad.

 

[JO_75]

The biggest problem with our team is we are stuck in the early 2000's with the way of thinking. I have no problem being a run first team but really need to catch up to the rest of the league. We keep trying an old philosophy that just doesn't work anymore.

We need to get an offense that can score 30 or more points weekly. We got the defense that prevents us from being a team with really good passing numbers but miss the playoffs(IE last year), we just need the offense to put up enough points to win every week.