Next Up: @ Dolphins

[JoeyFlex5]

How many does the 5th WR (MAYBE 4th) get especially when they play no special teams

Hollywood is only a 5th wr because he’s a rookie and/or didn’t practice much. His spot on the chart has absolute fuckall to do with our game plan

 

[purp]

I'm not basing it on depth chart, I'm basing it on ability right now based on how they played.

Right now Moore is better, Boykin is better, Scott is better, and Snead plays in slot. There just isn't room for a lot of snaps so why put him out there?

Boykin is basically taking the snaps that we thought would be Hollywood's

...If you legitimately think Chris Moore and Jaleel Scott are better wide receivers than Hollywood Brown because of practice and preseason I don’t know what to tell you.

More versatile parts of the team perhaps...but better wide outs? Come on.

 

[Adreme]

Maybe you are not completely discounting his speed but you are clearly discounting everything else.
You are ridiculous.

The numbers back Moore being good right now.

Snead is theconly slot.

Both Scott and especially Boykin have been consistently making big plays in both preseason and when practices were open. They have shown they are good.

To borrow a word, its ridiculous to say Hollywood has shown himself better then any of the three he is competing for snaps with. He might be and maybe he shows it, but to me you are what you have done and those 4 have done enough to deserve the snaps.

Its not an indictment on Hollywood but they all looked really good so why mess with that?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

The numbers back Moore being good right now.

Snead is theconly slot.

Both Scott and especially Boykin have been consistently making big plays in both preseason and when practices were open. They have shown they are good.

To borrow a word, its ridiculous to say Hollywood has shown himself better then any of the three he is competing for snaps with. He might be and maybe he shows it, but to me you are what you have done and those 4 have done enough to deserve the snaps.

Its not an indictment on Hollywood but they all looked really good so why mess with that?

By your rationale, at the start of the 2011 season mark Clayton was a better receiver than Julio Jones, because Clayton had produced at one point and Julio hadn’t

 

[Adreme]

...If you legitimately think Chris Moore and Jaleel Scott are better wide receivers than Hollywood Brown because of practice and preseason I don’t know what to tell you.

More versatile parts of the team perhaps...but better wide outs? Come on.

If you throw to Chris Moore the ball is complete 70% of the time for over 10 yards per catch (aka first down yardage) against NFL players.

Scott showed something against NFL players even if it is preseason and is beating Ravens defenders in practice (which almost is more telling).

To definitively even say Hollywood will be better is pure conjecture. Its probably true but he has no NFL game snaps so its pure conjuring (same with Scott). I would bet money on Hollywood being better because I think he has elite potential, but the others showed stuff right now. To me great performance in the now beats maybe better performance.

Then again it is the Dolphins so maybe its a decent tune up game for all the rookies.

 

[allblackraven]

The numbers back Moore being good right now.

Snead is theconly slot.

Both Scott and especially Boykin have been consistently making big plays in both preseason and when practices were open. They have shown they are good.

To borrow a word, its ridiculous to say Hollywood has shown himself better then any of the three he is competing for snaps with. He might be and maybe he shows it, but to me you are what you have done and those 4 have done enough to deserve the snaps.

Its not an indictment on Hollywood but they all looked really good so why mess with that?

Because Brown was the best WR in this year's draft class and is likely multiple times better than other guys on the roster?
You are delusional if you think he'll compete for snaps with Moore/Boykin/Roberts/Scott. He may feature less until confidence in that foot fully comes back but those guys aren't taking any snaps off of him.

 

[rossihunter2]

So far nothing because we haven't seen anything yet. We have seen what the others can do versus what Hollywood MIGHT do. Now the games count so have beats might.

I'm not completely discounting his speed, I just view it as least important part of a WR in today's NFL. We have seen the others get open and make big plays and they have more time with Lamar. All of those matter more to me and its not an indictment of Hollywood.

right but weve seen elements of this offence in preseason based around motion and getting smaller guys in space - it just happened that those smaller guys were udfas playing late who'd never ever see the field or chris moore - but what they do for the offence is i think indicative of what we will try to do in games

not saying chris moore wont do some of that but a lot of the stuff we saw in preseason weeks 1 and 2 was about using motion to create space (a la the chiefs) and it seems expressly designed for hollywood in stead of the personnel we saw in those games

and if hollywood was only about speed he wouldnt have been a first round pick and the first wr taken in the draft - theres a lot more to his playmaking than just speed - he's a nuanced wr and one of my favourite wr prospects in recent years - the receipts for those views are in the draft section of this forum if you think its just purple-tinted glasses

 

[rossihunter2]

If you throw to Chris Moore the ball is complete 70% of the time for over 10 yards per catch (aka first down yardage) against NFL players.

Scott showed something against NFL players even if it is preseason and is beating Ravens defenders in practice (which almost is more telling).

To definitively even say Hollywood will be better is pure conjecture. Its probably true but he has no NFL game snaps so its pure conjuring (same with Scott). I would bet money on Hollywood being better because I think he has elite potential, but the others showed stuff right now. To me great performance in the now beats maybe better performance.

Then again it is the Dolphins so maybe its a decent tune up game for all the rookies.

chris moore has that catch rate yes - he's also got 44 receptions total over his 4 years in the league for fewer than 500 yards

also important to say that you're talking about hollywood as if the coaches havent seen him play at all - he's been practicing most of training camp and has been full go for a while - so while all we see is preseason, the coaches literally see him every day - its not like they'll be throwing him in the game completely blind

 

[Tank]

chris moore has that catch rate yes - he's also got 44 receptions total over his 4 years in the league for fewer than 500 yards

also important to say that you're talking about hollywood as if the coaches havent seen him play at all - he's been practicing most of training camp and has been full go for a while - so while all we see is preseason, the coaches literally see him every day - its not like they'll be throwing him in the game completely blind

3 years, but who’s counting. lol

 

[Adreme]

By your rationale, at the start of the 2011 season mark Clayton was a better receiver than Julio Jones, because Clayton had produced at one point and Julio hadn’t

That's a great point against a thing I didn't say but if you want talk about my actual premise feel free, just be careful not to get straw everywhere.

Moore did those numbers LAST YEAR. Not 5 years ago, not 6, and its not sone random blio, he did it last year. That is a key distinction.

Its a very simple system for me. Most recent set of NFL games means more then most recent set of preseason which means more then college tape.

He could be Julio Jones or Perriman and because he has no NFL tape, you can't be sure which is true. Game tape shows Moore as above average. It probably will for Hollywood but why play Russian Roulette when you are already ahead?

 

[SepticeyePoe]

That's a great point against a thing I didn't say but if you want talk about my actual premise feel free, just be careful not to get straw everywhere.

Moore did those numbers LAST YEAR. Not 5 years ago, not 6, and its not sone random blio, he did it last year. That is a key distinction.

Its a very simple system for me. Most recent set of NFL games means more then most recent set of preseason which means more then college tape.

He could be Julio Jones or Perriman and because he has no NFL tape, you can't be sure which is true. Game tape shows Moore as above average. It probably will for Hollywood but why play Russian Roulette when you are already ahead?

The way I'm reading it, that is kinda what you're saying in this post here.

I'm not basing it on depth chart, I'm basing it on ability right now based on how they played.

Right now Moore is better, Boykin is better, Scott is better, and Snead plays in slot. There just isn't room for a lot of snaps so why put him out there?

Boykin is basically taking the snaps that we thought would be Hollywood's

 

[Adreme]

The way I'm reading it, that is kinda what you're saying in this post here.

The problem is twofold. I'm not sure Clayton ever caught half the balls thrown his way let alone 70. Second and far more important point is the concept of most recent NFL tape. Extrapolating that to 5 year old tape (2006ish or the last time Clayton mattered) when the next 5 years show him being awful is lunacy. Like saying Jerry Rice could outplay ODB because 25 years ago there was tape showing he could.

The recent aspect is why thats a strawman. You are what you last were in the NFL.

 

[rossihunter2]

He could be Julio Jones or Perriman and because he has no NFL tape, you can't be sure which is true. Game tape shows Moore as above average. It probably will for Hollywood but why play Russian Roulette when you are already ahead?

game tape shows chris moore as literally nothing special - he has a high of 19 receptions for a year... in 17 games for under 200 yards receiving

that doesnt smack of an above average receiver to me - he's got great hands and is a potentially useful number 4 receiver but that doesnt even make him average let alone above average - he does some good things on tape and he does some wonky things on tape - and he really hasnt consistently shown an ability to get open in games - his stand out ability is his ability to catch bad balls which is a useful skill but not something you can make a career on - fortunately for him he's building his career on special teams

 

[rossihunter2]

The problem is twofold. I'm not sure Clayton ever caught half the balls thrown his way let alone 70. Second and far more important point is the concept of most recent NFL tape. Extrapolating that to 5 year old tape (2006ish or the last time Clayton mattered) when the next 5 years show him being awful is lunacy. Like saying Jerry Rice could outplay ODB because 25 years ago there was tape showing he could.

The recent aspect is why thats a strawman. You are what you last were in the NFL.

you're talking about recent nfl tape as if chris moore was great last year... he wasnt

 

[allblackraven]

That's a great point against a thing I didn't say but if you want talk about my actual premise feel free, just be careful not to get straw everywhere.

Moore did those numbers LAST YEAR. Not 5 years ago, not 6, and its not sone random blio, he did it last year. That is a key distinction.

Lmao, what numbers???? 19 receptions in 16 games for less than 200 yards and one touchdown???

He could be Julio Jones or Perriman and because he has no NFL tape, you can't be sure which is true. Game tape shows Moore as above average. It probably will for Hollywood but why play Russian Roulette when you are already ahead?

By your logic, no rookies will ever be active before the current WR roster retires.

 

[Adreme]

you're talking about recent nfl tape as if chris moore was great last year... he wasnt

If I made a video of every play of every play on offense he was involved in and showed it to a non Ravens fan, he would assume I showed cut-down version of our teams number 1 WR. When you make the plays he makes, and have the tape he does, the question becomes "why stick with Crabtree when you clearly had better behind him?"

 

[Adreme]

Lmao, what numbers???? 19 receptions in 16 games for less than 200 yards and one touchdown???


By your logic, no rookies will ever be active before the current WR roster retires.

Only if said player misses the entire offseason has zero preseason work with the starting QB, and really only started playing full speed 2 weeks ago AND every player in front of you has looked great every chance we have had to see them, why force someone who has far fewer reps with the starters and backups who played well all preseason I ask why rock the boat?

 

[allblackraven]

Only if said player misses the entire offseason has zero preseason work with the starting QB, and really only started playing full speed 2 weeks ago AND every player in front of you has looked great every chance we have had to see them, why force someone who has far fewer reps with the starters and backups who played well all preseason I ask why rock the boat?

Have you ever argued about anything and accepted that you might be wrong?

 

[Adreme]

Have you ever argued about anything and accepted that you might be wrong?

Ya, it happens all the time. Usually all it requires is some evidence I either did not know about or did not look at in the same way and I go "hmmm good point." Happens to me all the time because I like to leave a conversation knowing more then when I came in

 

[JoeyFlex5]

That's a great point against a thing I didn't say but if you want talk about my actual premise feel free, just be careful not to get straw everywhere.

Moore did those numbers LAST YEAR. Not 5 years ago, not 6, and its not sone random blio, he did it last year. That is a key distinction.

Its a very simple system for me. Most recent set of NFL games means more then most recent set of preseason which means more then college tape.

He could be Julio Jones or Perriman and because he has no NFL tape, you can't be sure which is true. Game tape shows Moore as above average. It probably will for Hollywood but why play Russian Roulette when you are already ahead?

No no no, don’t try to backtrack, your exact thinking is that Chris Moore has shown something in the nfl and marquise brown hasn’t, therefore brown shouldn’t get a heavy snap count.

Mark Clayton produced numbers just ONE YEAR before Julio’s rookie year, more yards than Julio had ever produced at that point. Roy Williams produced numbers just ONE YEAR before Calvin Johnson’s rookie year. It’s literally the EXACT thing you’re saying, there is no difference in our comparisons.

You can’t not play rookies just because they’ve never produced, if that was how coaches thought then the nfl would’ve lasted about 3 years.

And if you want to be factual, Chris Moore has never shown to be above average as anything but a special teamer. Sure he’s got a high catch rating, on an extremely small sample size though, a sample size btw which is small because he has shown to be unreliable throughout his career with a number of drops on easy passes. On a franchise with the worst wr corps in the nfl since 2013, he’s been here 3 seasons, and he’s struggled to see any kind of meaningful snap count or target share and it’s because he has in fact shown a lack of dependability, that’s not above average, that’s pretty bad and overachieving when put in advantageous positions, which is what Chris Moore has done his whole time here.

And don’t get me wrong, I like Chris Moore, quite a bit actually and I am expecting quite a leap from him this year, he looks different when playing, more refined and savvy and confident. But I’m willing to bet that marquise brown may legitimately top Chris Moore’s entire career statline in just this season. 44 catches for 490 yards in 3 years is not above average, and it should be a pretty damn easy number for brown to top.

Sorry, but your argument is ridiculous from top to bottom, your entire argument is that you can’t play rookies because they’ve never produced in the nfl.