Ravens Trade News: Marcus Peters, etc...

[allblackraven]

 

[Ice Bowl]

Any big trades?

 

[cobrajet]

Jimmy isn't going to play safety, if anything, is strong suite is using the boundary. It was Brandon Carr who practiced some at safety in the offseason. He will probably bounce around from nickel corner to safety. Carr is very flexible and can play around the defense. I'll be interested to see how they use all of our defensive backs, especially Hump, Peters and Jimmy

I was just joking. I thought a member brought it up in one of the threads.

 

[RavensMania]

I was just joking. I thought a member brought it up in one of the threads.

that's true and someone did mention that

 

[Dom McRaven]

View attachment 1892

It's not like we're good with 2nd rounders anyways lol. Fuck it, I would've done it. Could you imagine last season's secondary with Jamal Adams instead of Weddle?

 

[JAAM]

The emotional fan in me wanted Adams because our secondary would’ve been ridiculous

The logical fan in me knows that no Safety other than Ed in his prime is worth the draft capital it would’ve taken to nab Adams and we can’t pay everyone, but dammit, I’m extremely happy EDC is being aggressive. I can’t WAIT to see what moves he makes in the offseason

 

[rossihunter2]

The emotional fan in me wanted Adams because our secondary would’ve been ridiculous

The logical fan in me knows that no Safety other than Ed in his prime is worth the draft capital it would’ve taken to nab Adams and we can’t pay everyone, but dammit, I’m extremely happy EDC is being aggressive. I can’t WAIT to see what moves he makes in the offseason

i think he's almost viewing trades like we used to (and may still) view the draft and draft picks which is BPA - which means that regardless of position if a player is available that is worthy of the pick at any particular spot - or in this case if any player comes available for trade at any position with value - you take them if the value's right

and i do see the logic given that you're mostly using the same capital to operate in both theatres

 

[rmcjacket23]

To me, any player on that team has to look no further than what they did to KO to say, OMG - get me outta here.

They wont be getting any FAs this offseason. You'd have to be nuts to sign on with that franchise.

I don't think it matters. If they offer somebody quality guaranteed money, they'll sign there. FA is about 90% money, 10% everything else.

That's the thing. A franchise like that can be as dysfunctional as it is, but at the end of the day, they still gotta pay the guys they have guaranteed to pay. Bell doesn't care how dysfunctional the franchise is... he's getting paid. Same with CJ.

The guys who are getting out of town or want out of town are guys like KO, Robbie Anderson or Jamal Adams. Guys on rookie deals they won't keep much longer, or an overpaid veteran who's production has fallen off and doesn't have any guaranteed money on his deal left anyway.

 

[rmcjacket23]

One signing cancels out one loss that means the Jags can't sign any player just to make sure they're getting a comp pick.
They have at best two other player who are likely targets in FA and their roster has so many holes. They can't risk not signing FAs.
If they want to maximize their return they need to trade him today and for less than what the media suggests. Anything else doesn't make sense from an economic perspective.

Or they could just keep him and pay him. That would actually be quite easy for them to do. I think him being in their long term plans is far and away the most likely outcome.

 

[rmcjacket23]

i think he's almost viewing trades like we used to (and may still) view the draft and draft picks which is BPA - which means that regardless of position if a player is available that is worthy of the pick at any particular spot - or in this case if any player comes available for trade at any position with value - you take them if the value's right

and i do see the logic given that you're mostly using the same capital to operate in both theatres

While I agree, the offsetting problem is compensation.

In the case of Adams, I would agree. If you could get him for just a first rounder, I think you should strongly consider it, because I think he's easily a first round caliber player. He's still got one more year on his rookie deal + 5th year option, meaning you get him at a decent discount for two years.

If we were talking about like Ngakoue, I think its a bit of a different story. You have to pay him market value next year immediately. So not only would you have to give up significant draft capital, but you'd also have to almost immediately pay him market value for it.

That's the real issue with these trades, and why the trade deadline is always more bark than bite. Most of the guys getting dealt are veteran players on expiring contracts for mid to late round trade value. The Jalen Ramsey deals are few and far between, and even the Rams had to trim like half their secondary just to make it work.

As everyone knows, the real value in the draft is high quality players on below market prices. You don't get that when you make a deal for Ngakoue. You get that for like 10 games, and then all you have is a quality player at a very high price tag.

 

[balfan23]

I don't think it matters. If they offer somebody quality guaranteed money, they'll sign there. FA is about 90% money, 10% everything else.

That's the thing. A franchise like that can be as dysfunctional as it is, but at the end of the day, they still gotta pay the guys they have guaranteed to pay. Bell doesn't care how dysfunctional the franchise is... he's getting paid. Same with CJ.

The guys who are getting out of town or want out of town are guys like KO, Robbie Anderson or Jamal Adams. Guys on rookie deals they won't keep much longer, or an overpaid veteran who's production has fallen off and doesn't have any guaranteed money on his deal left anyway.

Well if two teams are offering a similar deal and one is the Jets I’d be heading in the other direction.

 

[RavensMania]

Well if two teams are offering a similar deal and one is the Jets I’d be heading in the other direction.

what if its between the Jets and Skins?

 

[allblackraven]

what if its between the Jets and Skins?

Retire as a Raven

 

[rmcjacket23]

Well if two teams are offering a similar deal and one is the Jets I’d be heading in the other direction.

Sure. But that's why teams like them give Bell and Mosley the deals they did. You think either of those guys thought to themselves "yeah, I'm going to be a better culture" when they signed there? Other teams were interested in those players. The Jets just simply offered the most cash.

And that's why they're playing there.

Like maybe culture matters to somebody like Earl Thomas or Eric Weddle. 8-10 year + veterans, have already made good money. But the top tier FAs in most years are rookie-contract players looking for their first big score. And they typically pick the team who provides the biggest score.

And don't ignore the ego factor. These are Pro Athletes who have been told they're great and have largely been great for the entirety of their life. Everybody thinks they're the superstar, and everybody thinks they can be the guy to turn a franchise around.

 

[airconteka]

Makes perfect sense if you are only planning on signing one contract, playing for a shit team means your development is going to be hindered by poor coaching, you will look rubbish because your team sucks and you will lose the love of the game because you get humiliated every Sunday.

 

[Adreme]

While I agree, the offsetting problem is compensation.

In the case of Adams, I would agree. If you could get him for just a first rounder, I think you should strongly consider it, because I think he's easily a first round caliber player. He's still got one more year on his rookie deal + 5th year option, meaning you get him at a decent discount for two years.

If we were talking about like Ngakoue, I think its a bit of a different story. You have to pay him market value next year immediately. So not only would you have to give up significant draft capital, but you'd also have to almost immediately pay him market value for it.

That's the real issue with these trades, and why the trade deadline is always more bark than bite. Most of the guys getting dealt are veteran players on expiring contracts for mid to late round trade value. The Jalen Ramsey deals are few and far between, and even the Rams had to trim like half their secondary just to make it work.

As everyone knows, the real value in the draft is high quality players on below market prices. You don't get that when you make a deal for Ngakoue. You get that for like 10 games, and then all you have is a quality player at a very high price tag.

The theory of the draft is quality player at below quality contract, but most times its middle of the road to bad player that the team can soon move on from. This is one of the reasons I loved the Minkah trade for the Steelers (the other being money), you trade1 year off a first-round pick for the knowledge that the guy is legit as opposed to the 50 percent of busts.

Basically I think teams tend to overvalue draft picks and think they draft better then they do.

As for 2nd contracts I agree its the most money, but forget the Bell situation its the KO situation that could cause problems. The one thing every player cares about is their own health, and that story might make players just not be willing to deal with them.

 

[RavensMania]

The theory of the draft is quality player at below quality contract, but most times its middle of the road to bad player that the team can soon move on from. This is one of the reasons I loved the Minkah trade for the Steelers (the other being money), you trade1 year off a first-round pick for the knowledge that the guy is legit as opposed to the 50 percent of busts.

Basically I think teams tend to overvalue draft picks and think they draft better then they do.

As for 2nd contracts I agree its the most money, but forget the Bell situation its the KO situation that could cause problems. The one thing every player cares about is their own health, and that story might make players just not be willing to deal with them.

maybe if the Steelers weren't as bad as they were. Thing is this is a year where the WR and QB draft class is good. The WR draft class is supposed to be up there with the 2014 draft class and they may be in the top 10 atleast 15 and could have drafted an elite WR or a Big Ben replacement, if they weren't totally sold on Mason Rudolph. I'm a fan of Minkah Fitzpatrick as well and still believe they gave up a bit too much.

 

[balfan23]

Sure. But that's why teams like them give Bell and Mosley the deals they did. You think either of those guys thought to themselves "yeah, I'm going to be a better culture" when they signed there? Other teams were interested in those players. The Jets just simply offered the most cash.

And that's why they're playing there.

Like maybe culture matters to somebody like Earl Thomas or Eric Weddle. 8-10 year + veterans, have already made good money. But the top tier FAs in most years are rookie-contract players looking for their first big score. And they typically pick the team who provides the biggest score.

And don't ignore the ego factor. These are Pro Athletes who have been told they're great and have largely been great for the entirety of their life. Everybody thinks they're the superstar, and everybody thinks they can be the guy to turn a franchise around.

Agreed, but for Bell and Mosley ... don't you think that a part of their brain is now telling them, after the fact, "what was I thinking? "

It is impossible for me to say really what I would do if I were in their shoes, but if someone is giving me the choice between $80M and a good situation or $90M a bad one, I feel like I'd choose the good situation for the sake of happiness. Yes $10M is a crazy amount of money, but in the face of $80M ... I mean is that extra $10M going to change my life?

I absolutely agree with your statement about ego. I want to be the highest paid player - if even by $1, because I'm better than everyone else ... regardless of what the situation is. I think it would serve them well if they looked at the organization and not the collection of players. A great player can turn a bad team around, if the organization isn't a mess, but they are virtually powerless to make a bad organization good.

We've seen this before with my beloved Orioles ... and the comment that they felt like they were offering "confederate money", because players knew to steer clear of our organization. So yes, teams like the Jets may be able to lure talent, but they will have to over pay and after what's gone on this year, that premium may be going up.

 

[rmcjacket23]

The theory of the draft is quality player at below quality contract, but most times its middle of the road to bad player that the team can soon move on from. This is one of the reasons I loved the Minkah trade for the Steelers (the other being money), you trade1 year off a first-round pick for the knowledge that the guy is legit as opposed to the 50 percent of busts.

Basically I think teams tend to overvalue draft picks and think they draft better then they do.

As for 2nd contracts I agree its the most money, but forget the Bell situation its the KO situation that could cause problems. The one thing every player cares about is their own health, and that story might make players just not be willing to deal with them.

That's true, but that also just assumes that every known commodity continues to play at or above the level you've seen them at in the past.

We know from free agency that its incredibly prevalent that you sign somebody for a market value contract, that player doesn't play as well as he did in the past, and you're left holding the back on a high priced, descending player. With a draft pick, that risk is pretty much gone. If a 4th round pick doesn't pan out, it cost you like $2M over three years, which is nothing.

The exact same in a trade scenario. There's no such thing as a perpetual proven commodity. One of the biggest fallacies that exists today in the NFL is that known commodities continue to be known commodities for an indefinite period.

Like I can tell you right now... at least 1-2 of the "name" players who's been traded this year won't really be a good player for the team acquiring them. It doesn't matter if they were a great player before, because you reaped none of the benefits of that.

 

[rmcjacket23]

maybe if the Steelers weren't as bad as they were. Thing is this is a year where the WR and QB draft class is good. The WR draft class is supposed to be up there with the 2014 draft class and they may be in the top 10 atleast 15 and could have drafted an elite WR or a Big Ben replacement, if they weren't totally sold on Mason Rudolph. I'm a fan of Minkah Fitzpatrick as well and still believe they gave up a bit too much.

Agree here. If that first round pick was in the 20s, I wouldn't have had an issue with it. In fact realistically, I don't have an issue with it now, but I think its just the "perception" that they could have used that pick to address another bigger position of need.