2020 WR Draft Thread

[allblackraven]

ive seen basically every single media outlet and media scout talk about shenault as a top 5 receiver and even guys like voch lombardi raving over him and i just dont get it - he's versatile and great with the ball in his hands but he literally does not separate because he's incredibly raw as a receiver - he's got so much upside but there's like 10 other receivers in this class with crazy ceilings who also happen to be better at separating than shenault

its the one thing that i really really dont understand - with other prospects where i have a disparity i can kind of see it but with shenault i dont get it at all

As you said, he is incredibly versatile player. I could see him thriving in our offense, since you can use him in the slot, out of backfield and yes, he can cause problems deep if secondary isn't careful. Strong, hard to tackle, with creative OC he could become dangerous playmaker in pros.
BTW, his 2018 tape is better than last year.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

ive seen basically every single media outlet and media scout talk about shenault as a top 5 receiver and even guys like voch lombardi raving over him and i just dont get it - he's versatile and great with the ball in his hands but he literally does not separate because he's incredibly raw as a receiver - he's got so much upside but there's like 10 other receivers in this class with crazy ceilings who also happen to be better at separating than shenault

its the one thing that i really really dont understand - with other prospects where i have a disparity i can kind of see it but with shenault i dont get it at all

Agreed totally. I’m just not that big on YAC specialists, never have been, guys that are regarded first and foremost as a YAC weapon makes me pause, the only one I recall that really panned out was Percy harvin. I don’t wanna manufacture touches, I want guys who can make plays for our qb, not a guy who needs our qb to make plays for him. One thing I’ll give him aside form the obvious YAC ability, is that he is truly a beast, like a really rare physical specimen, he’s like Adrian Peterson lined out wide, and his contested catch ability is respectable.

If we were to draft him, honestly, he wouldn’t be a full time wr, I’m giving him like 10 carries a game, no exaggeration, I’m gonna make him learn pass pro and have him at FB on lots of passing downs, survey the field and lay a chip and slip out for a dump off, shit like that. I just don’t see how he could be a wr at the next level without at least an entire season of huge development

 

[rossihunter2]

Agreed totally. I’m just not that big on YAC specialists, never have been, guys that are regarded first and foremost as a YAC weapon makes me pause, the only one I recall that really panned out was Percy harvin. I don’t wanna manufacture touches, I want guys who can make plays for our qb, not a guy who needs our qb to make plays for him. One thing I’ll give him aside form the obvious YAC ability, is that he is truly a beast, like a really rare physical specimen, he’s like Adrian Peterson lined out wide, and his contested catch ability is respectable.

If we were to draft him, honestly, he wouldn’t be a full time wr, I’m giving him like 10 carries a game, no exaggeration, I’m gonna make him learn pass pro and have him at FB on lots of passing downs, survey the field and lay a chip and slip out for a dump off, shit like that. I just don’t see how he could be a wr at the next level without at least an entire season of huge development

in our offence its like basically having another TE but one who can take handoffs which isnt an unattractive thing obviously but as you say you're going to have to create touches for him because he hasnt shown the ability yet to separate on his own consistently especially on the outside

id say there's 3 guys with similarly nebulous skillsets this year - Shenault, Bowden and Gibson and they all do it in different ways - Shenault physically is a freak but Bowden is probably the most explosive and most likely to contribute early and also has some separation skills that suggest he's going to develop as a route runner especially running post routes and stuff like that (also is a punt returner) and he locates deep balls like he's an out-fielder which helps him maintain separation while the ball is in the air which is an underrated skill (and something not many receivers even in the NFL can do), and gibson is more of a true RB than the other two but is definitely more of a flex weapon than a RB

of the 3 Bowden is my favourite but i can see a role for all 3 in this offence - the problem for me is that the talk of shenault is in the 1st round conversation and ive got a mid-3rd round grade on him whereas Bowden is also a 3 in my eyes but that also seems to be where lots of the media have him too

shenault might have the highest ceiling of any of the receivers in the class but i would be genuinely shocked if he actually got close to that ceiling

also important notes on the guy who made these rankings:

1) he's the same guy who said kristian fulton is CB1 which is outrageous - okudah might be the best corner ive ever seen on film at the collegiate level (started in 2014)
2) his justification is apparently the fact that "separation doesn't translate" (specifically with regards to shenault over jeudy but with the rest of his rankings you could probably guess its a fundamental belief in his scouting terms) and i disagree with sam monson of PFF on a lot of things but he made the salient point that anyone who's scouted WRs in recent history would and should likely come to the complete opposite conclusion - Solak justified his point by saying its tougher to get separation at the NFL level so it doesnt translate as well which is a stupid argument and then further tried to justify it by referring to separation as "totally running away from a dude" which completely undermines the whole process of route running as a skillset

 

[JoeyFlex5]

in our offence its like basically having another TE but one who can take handoffs which isnt an unattractive thing obviously but as you say you're going to have to create touches for him because he hasnt shown the ability yet to separate on his own consistently especially on the outside

id say there's 3 guys with similarly nebulous skillsets this year - Shenault, Bowden and Gibson and they all do it in different ways - Shenault physically is a freak but Bowden is probably the most explosive and most likely to contribute early and also has some separation skills that suggest he's going to develop as a route runner especially running post routes and stuff like that (also is a punt returner) and he locates deep balls like he's an out-fielder which helps him maintain separation while the ball is in the air which is an underrated skill (and something not many receivers even in the NFL can do), and gibson is more of a true RB than the other two but is definitely more of a flex weapon than a RB

of the 3 Bowden is my favourite but i can see a role for all 3 in this offence - the problem for me is that the talk of shenault is in the 1st round conversation and ive got a mid-3rd round grade on him whereas Bowden is also a 3 in my eyes but that also seems to be where lots of the media have him too

shenault might have the highest ceiling of any of the receivers in the class but i would be genuinely shocked if he actually got close to that ceiling

also important notes on the guy who made these rankings:

1) he's the same guy who said kristian fulton is CB1 which is outrageous - okudah might be the best corner ive ever seen on film at the collegiate level (started in 2014)
2) his justification is apparently the fact that "separation doesn't translate" (specifically with regards to shenault over jeudy but with the rest of his rankings you could probably guess its a fundamental belief in his scouting terms) and i disagree with sam monson of PFF on a lot of things but he made the salient point that anyone who's scouted WRs in recent history would and should likely come to the complete opposite conclusion - Solak justified his point by saying its tougher to get separation at the NFL level so it doesnt translate as well which is a stupid argument and then further tried to justify it by referring to separation as "totally running away from a dude" which completely undermines the whole process of route running as a skillset

Holy shit he said those things?

does he get fucking paid for his work? My god we all need to start a football journalism website, focused on the draft

 

[rossihunter2]

Holy shit he said those things?

does he get fucking paid for his work? My god we all need to start a football journalism website, focused on the draft

he works for the draft network lol

 

[rossihunter2]

 

[rossihunter2]

if you click on sam monson's tweet you should see the conversation between him and solak (you will have to click to open the 11 replies) - when i saw it i literally full on gasped

 

[JoeyFlex5]

he works for the draft network lol

I know lol idk if those guys are getting paid for that horseshit or not though lol. Like that’s far worse than Walter football takes

 

[rossihunter2]

I know lol idk if those guys are getting paid for that horseshit or not though lol. Like that’s far worse than Walter football takes

the crabbs dude seems ok - i disagree with him on some stuff but he seems to at least have a decent understanding of what he's talking about

solak and marino and a couple of the others are basically worthless

no idea if they're getting paid but i assume they are because they have a premium version of their site

 

[rossihunter2]

 

[JAAM]

Sure he's been talked about a lot in here, but I've just gotten into the draft prospects. If Reagor was there when we pick in the first, should we take him? He'd be another track star for Lamar and would finally solve our return man issues...

 

[rossihunter2]

Sure he's been talked about a lot in here, but I've just gotten into the draft prospects. If Reagor was there when we pick in the first, should we take him? He'd be another track star for Lamar and would finally solve our return man issues...

i know flex would say yes for sure - for me it depends on who else is there - i cant give you a full answer right now because i havent got the board stacked yet but my guess is he'd be close to the top of my list of guys who we should take at 28 if he gets there

 

[JAAM]

i know flex would say yes for sure - for me it depends on who else is there - i cant give you a full answer right now because i havent got the board stacked yet but my guess is he'd be close to the top of my list of guys who we should take at 28 if he gets there

Awesome... I'm seeing a lot of good things about him.

 

[rossihunter2]

Awesome... I'm seeing a lot of good things about him.

my biggest concern is some concentration drops
but for someone who's only 5'11" he's awesome in contested situations - probably going to do well in all the explosive drills at the combine not just the 40

 

[JAAM]

my biggest concern is some concentration drops
but for someone who's only 5'11" he's awesome in contested situations - probably going to do well in all the explosive drills at the combine not just the 40

From what I've read, he high points the ball really well for a guy his size. Probably what you're alluding too when you say he's awesome in contested situations. I love that

 

[rossihunter2]

interestingly jalen reagor and denzel mims are both training with the wr guru david robinson who also in the past has helped train antonio brown and emmanuel sanders

but even more interestingly still trains Hollywood, deebo, hardman and chris godwin (among others)

 

[JoeyFlex5]

You know who raegor could end up very similar to? Steve Smith. Mighty mouses, fast as all hell, explosive change of direction, elite ball tracking, jumps out the stadium, high points, handles contact and traffic very well, elite body control.

the mentality has to match before you can make that comparison, but the skill set is there.

I still highly doubt he’d be my top choice at 28, but as I said before he’s on the short list, you got gross-matos, Cesar Ruiz, and gallimore/Baun/raegor/Murray are all guys I can’t really give a preference on. Cesar Ruiz could very well move down, but I love his film and my Personal flavor of the month seems to be stacking the OL lol so he’s high for now

 

[rossihunter2]

You know who raegor could end up very similar to? Steve Smith. Mighty mouses, fast as all hell, explosive change of direction, elite ball tracking, jumps out the stadium, high points, handles contact and traffic very well, elite body control.

the mentality has to match before you can make that comparison, but the skill set is there.

I still highly doubt he’d be my top choice at 28, but as I said before he’s on the short list, you got gross-matos, Cesar Ruiz, and gallimore/Baun/raegor/Murray are all guys I can’t really give a preference on. Cesar Ruiz could very well move down, but I love his film and my Personal flavor of the month seems to be stacking the OL lol so he’s high for now

you're not gonna like me but im not sure i want 3 of those guys at that spot lol - the 3 i like most there are Ruiz, gross-matos and reagor

i think gallimore's got really high upside as a pass rusher but too often he gets stuck if he doesnt win with his first move and hes pretty inconsistent throughout his tape - i think there are 5 DL i'd take ahead of him right now (brown and kinlaw obviously but also blacklock, marlon davidson and madubuike albeit i have him in that group)
i think baun's a great prospect but i dont love the fit with the ravens but he's the one im most likely to come around on
i think murray's got high upside too and ive said already that he's probably fine at 28 but you're really going to hate me for this but I like patrick queen better lol (also akeem davis-gaither tbh too)

that being said they are all in my 2nd tier of prospects so who knows ultimately how ill stack them

 

[JoeyFlex5]

you're not gonna like me but im not sure i want 3 of those guys at that spot lol - the 3 i like most there are Ruiz, gross-matos and reagor

i think gallimore's got really high upside as a pass rusher but too often he gets stuck if he doesnt win with his first move and hes pretty inconsistent throughout his tape - i think there are 5 DL i'd take ahead of him right now (brown and kinlaw obviously but also blacklock, marlon davidson and madubuike albeit i have him in that group)
i think baun's a great prospect but i dont love the fit with the ravens but he's the one im most likely to come around on
i think murray's got high upside too and ive said already that he's probably fine at 28 but you're really going to hate me for this but I like patrick queen better lol (also akeem davis-gaither tbh too)

that being said they are all in my 2nd tier of prospects so who knows ultimately how ill stack them

I’m ok with all of that except for queen lol. Gallimore dropped supposedly more than 30lbs this season and just became more of a DT rather than a nose, so I expect development there since his quickness and explosion is kinda newfound. But queen, my god, he had one great game and he’s either nonexistent or flat out bad in every other game I’ve watched lol. All of his hype is based on one game. And I like Baun because he’s an incredible blitzer against both pass and run, he’s explosive, and above all he’s a finisher, he’s a guy wink could definitely do some things with as a blitzer

but you’re right, I don’t like you, you pos

 

[Davesta]

Van Jefferson has that Keenan Allen vibe when I watch him run his routes. It’s so crisp. I keep drafting him in the 3rd in all the mock simulator lol. I don’t think he falls that far though.