The General Front 7 Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

I think its gonna be:

Weddle ----- Jefferson
Jimmy -------------------------- Suggs ------ Mosley ---------- Correa ----------- Judon ----------------------- Carr
Urban ------------Pierce/BWill----BWill/Pierce


Though I think more often than not we'll take off Urban and bring on Canady/Boykin. And in passing situations i think we'll use a lot of just 1 down lineman (Pierce/BWill) and use 5 stand up LB's. And we have a mix of guys w/ diverse skill sets that can make that fun.. like Boswer/Correa could easily flip 1 on the edge, 1 in the middle where then either could drop in coverage, blitz a gap, rush the edge, cover a flat/zone, etc... guys like Suggs, Judon, Zadarius, Urban, Kaufusi could all be stand up edge ushers or drop down with their hand in the dirt and stand back up again.

You can just move those guys all around.

But in terms of base personnel..... week 1.... i think thats what we're seeing.

I was actually referring to a base package sans Suggs, so if he retires next offseason we have an attractive 4-3 base package

 

[Jacquouille]

I think in base package Wormley makes a world more sense than Urban, who's really shining against the pass, whereas Worm can be effective against both because he's just stupidly strong and disciplined.

The interactions between Correa and Bowser will also be very interesting to monitor. It could make our defense absolutely impossible to deal with. If anything, Pees is a master at disguising blitzes and coverages, and when you put in Webb, Weddle, Jefferson, Correa, Mosley and Bowser as guys that can do a lot of things each including rush and cover, it could just be too much.

 

[rossihunter2]

I think in base package Wormley makes a world more sense than Urban, who's really shining against the pass, whereas Worm can be effective against both because he's just stupidly strong and disciplined.

The interactions between Correa and Bowser will also be very interesting to monitor. It could make our defense absolutely impossible to deal with. If anything, Pees is a master at disguising blitzes and coverages, and when you put in Webb, Weddle, Jefferson, Correa, Mosley and Bowser as guys that can do a lot of things each including rush and cover, it could just be too much.

that's a great point that i hadnt really thought about in the same way that upshaw was the starter but dumervil was the star
but i honestly think that who's at 5t and whos at 3t is going to be kind of moot this year given the wr talent now in the division - i fully expect our base package to essentially be nickel so i expect bwill at 3t and pierce at nose a lot this year with other guys rotating in - i mean obviously we'll play with 3 lineman a lot but im not sure if a 3-4 de is gonna be a "starter" and i imagine we'll see a pretty even rotation at the 5t spot whereas 3t and nose are pretty much nailed on

 

[The Raven]

Currently watching Houston vs FSU (2015 Bowl Game). How in the world do you wish to tell me Tyus Bowser can't rush the passer if you have seen this game?

Was he effective off the edge after engaging the tackle or was he effective as a blitz? How did he beat the tackle, if it was off the edge?

 

[The Raven]

whos the starting DE in our 34 in week 1? hell whats the starting lineup on the dl? i think the 5T is urbans job to lose, i think 3T is gonna come down to wormley and whoever looks more natural there between pierce and bwill.

what im really excited about though, is the possibility of a base 4-3 once suggs leaves. a DL of Judon, pierce, williams, and kaufusi/timmy, with bowser, mosley, and correa at LB sounds like a handful, and then jefferweddle both being versatile guys who can play up close should create a ton of confusion.

weddle--------- jefferson
Jimmy------------------Bowser----Mosley----Correa --------------------Carr/Humphrey
Judon - Pierce - Bwill - Kaufusi/Urban

fun base package

To me, it's gotta be Wormley, unless Willie Henry and Brent Urban magically figure out how to anchor. It's a different story if we asked our DLto do more than anchor and hold blocks, but until we replace that mindset with an attacking style, Wormley is the best fit to line up next to Williams and Pierce.

The other question I have is this: Who is the third DL if either Williams or Pierce is out? Urban? Kaufusi? Henry? DL could be weak this year due to lack of depth, but again, it depends on what we ask them to do. If we encourage more single gap penetration and let them rain down holy fire on the offense, I'd have a lot of confidence in Urban or Kaufusi to play the 5 or 3.

 

[Jacquouille]

Was he effective off the edge after engaging the tackle or was he effective as a blitz? How did he beat the tackle, if it was off the edge?

That's the interesting part, he wasn't blitzing. Sometimes he was lined up on the inside but it wasn't a blitz, more like how Suggs rushes at times, and he really got good leverage against both guards and tackles, and showed really solid ability to disengage and slap OL's hands with quick handswork. Put pressure on the QB very fast nearly everytime he was rushing.
I really wasn't excited when we picked him, was pretty neutral but the more I watch him the more impressed and excited I am.

 

[The Raven]

That's the interesting part, he wasn't blitzing. Sometimes he was lined up on the inside but it wasn't a blitz, more like how Suggs rushes at times, and he really got good leverage against both guards and tackles, and showed really solid ability to disengage and slap OL's hands with quick handswork. Put pressure on the QB very fast nearly everytime he was rushing.
I really wasn't excited when we picked him, was pretty neutral but the more I watch him the more impressed and excited I am.

Well, I'll take it. That was not the norm for him if you ask me, but it's comforting to know that the potential to develop that skill is there. Previously, I was of the belief he simply wouldn't develop well as an edge guy.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

To me, it's gotta be Wormley, unless Willie Henry and Brent Urban magically figure out how to anchor. It's a different story if we asked our DLto do more than anchor and hold blocks, but until we replace that mindset with an attacking style, Wormley is the best fit to line up next to Williams and Pierce.

The other question I have is this: Who is the third DL if either Williams or Pierce is out? Urban? Kaufusi? Henry? DL could be weak this year due to lack of depth, but again, it depends on what we ask them to do. If we encourage more single gap penetration and let them rain down holy fire on the offense, I'd have a lot of confidence in Urban or Kaufusi to play the 5 or 3.

If Henry can turn his raw physical gifts into a football player, he by far has the most raw skill. He could probably run a 4.8 at 310 lbs. and if I remember correctly many scouts said he could probably play the nosetackle as well. So he must have pretty stout anchor to.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

All these defensive players somebody has to break out and be a double digit sack producer outside of Timmy Williams. Henry is one of the candidates

 

[Jacquouille]

Well, I'll take it. That was not the norm for him if you ask me, but it's comforting to know that the potential to develop that skill is there. Previously, I was of the belief he simply wouldn't develop well as an edge guy.

Yeah obvioulsy you have to take it with a pinch of salt, he isn't a guy that will come in and post 9+ sacks, he just lives by athleticism for the most part (although like I said he wasn't clueless when he went face to face with the OL which is very good). That said with just that Leonard Floyd got 7sacks and Ngakoue had 8. So expecting 5-6 sacks looks reasonnable and I'd be very glad if he did.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Yeah obvioulsy you have to take it with a pinch of salt, he isn't a guy that will come in and post 9+ sacks, he just lives by athleticism for the most part (although like I said he wasn't clueless when he went face to face with the OL which is very good). That said with just that Leonard Floyd got 7sacks and Ngakoue had 8. So expecting 5-6 sacks looks reasonnable and I'd be very glad if he did.

Gotta say I'm surprised ngakoue played so well. He had a lot going for him statistically but his film had me thinking less of him everytime I watched it. His decision making looked horrid

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Gotta say I'm surprised ngakoue played so well. He had a lot going for him statistically but his film had me thinking less of him everytime I watched it. His decision making looked horrid

I liked Ngakoue far better than Correa whom I never liked and maintain he is gonna be a bust. I'm Sorry dude I know he is your boy. But I never liked the pick from the jump!! At All!!

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I liked Ngakoue far better than Correa whom I never liked and maintain he is gonna be a bust. I'm Sorry dude I know he is your boy. But I never liked the pick from the jump!! At All!!

For like the millionth time, I'm not some big correa fan, I just took his upside and had some optimism because he's got a high ceiling and we picked him, so I can either bitch about it or find reasons to be positive. And I do this with basically all of our picks.

 

[Truth]

Gotta say I'm surprised ngakoue played so well. He had a lot going for him statistically but his film had me thinking less of him everytime I watched it. His decision making looked horrid

For what it's worth, he graded out as the league's worst run defender among edge rushers, 107 of 107. That was in large part responsible to him earning the 8th worst grade among his position peers. Perhaps you were closer than you thought.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

For what it's worth, he graded out as the league's worst run defender among edge rushers, 107 of 107. That was in large part responsible to him earning the 8th worst grade among his position peers. Perhaps you were closer than you thought.

Who cares about defending the run dude!! Very small details. somebody else can make the tackle. Who cares if he gets an extra yard. lol Way the game is going the league is eventually going to put a WR next to the QB that is allowed to run 5 times a game.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

For like the millionth time, I'm not some big correa fan, I just took his upside and had some optimism because he's got a high ceiling and we picked him, so I can either bitch about it or find reasons to be positive. And I do this with basically all of our picks.

It is ok Flex!! No judgement for being a big Correa fan . You like his style dude. We get it

 

[JoeyFlex5]

For what it's worth, he graded out as the league's worst run defender among edge rushers, 107 of 107. That was in large part responsible to him earning the 8th worst grade among his position peers. Perhaps you were closer than you thought.

That isn't surprising at all, but his pass rush film still raised concerns for me. Remember when correa got like one edge rush snap all year and he plowed into a stationary OT with a head of steam and got strongarmed off his feet and looked pathetic? Ngakoue did that on the reg in college, he also appeared to have zero pocket vision, dude never seemed to know where the qb was and was constantly taking himself out of plays due to a lack of awareness.

Maybe you really can coast on burst and speed sometimes

 

[Jacquouille]

Ngakoue got stonewalled a huge amount of times in college. He really looked like a one trick pony and that trick looked far from unstopble.

 

[rossihunter2]

Who cares about defending the run dude!! Very small details. somebody else can make the tackle. Who cares if he gets an extra yard. lol Way the game is going the league is eventually going to put a WR next to the QB that is allowed to run 5 times a game.

then that wr would essentially be a change of pace /pass-catching running back - its not that far fetched it happens all the time - most rbs are pass catchers out of the backfield anyway
or you could think of what green bay did last year and literally turn a wr into a rb with ty montgomery

but run defending is more than just tackling, especially on the edge its about keeping contain and setting the edge so that a runner cant get outside - if you suck on the edge at run defending then more likely than not its not just an extra yard you are giving away but likely you're giving away the edge and therefore are probably getting gashed

and yards count the same in the air and on the ground so of course you should care about an extra yard... especially when there's only 10 yards between the chains

 

[Truth]

That isn't surprising at all, but his pass rush film still raised concerns for me. Remember when correa got like one edge rush snap all year and he plowed into a stationary OT with a head of steam and got strongarmed off his feet and looked pathetic? Ngakoue did that on the reg in college, he also appeared to have zero pocket vision, dude never seemed to know where the qb was and was constantly taking himself out of plays due to a lack of awareness.

Maybe you really can coast on burst and speed sometimes

To your point, he also graded out slightly below average as a pass rusher.