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The Random Thought Thread

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
If you wait until next year you probably do not get a 1 for him. You got a 1 for a player, who really was not worth a 1, because you found a desperate team who needed exactly that player at exactly the right time.
Ehh maybe. Realistically it wasn't really a 1 anyway, because you also gave up a 3, so its more like an early 2.

His value could also go up, as teams that were more desperate than Arizona could come calling. Plus obviously having him on a team that's supposedly competing for a Lombardi this year (us) is valuable.
 
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rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
I mean with both the Hopkins situation and the QB situation they 100% overpaid in an effort to try and keep their QB happy, which is in the long-term best interest of the Cardinals.
I can't really say they overpaid at this point. Like people were comping what Dallas got for Amari Cooper, but they're ignoring the fact that the Cardinals get Hollywood for 2 years at $15.5M total (not per year), whereas Cooper has 3 years and $60M left on his deal, with one year fully guaranteed.
So naturally one will cost more in a trade than another.
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
Ehh maybe. Realistically it wasn't really a 1 anyway, because you also gave up a 3, so its more like an early 2.

His value could also go up, as teams that were more desperate than Arizona could come calling. Plus obviously having him on a team that's supposedly competing for a Lombardi this year (us) is valuable.
The C they got is likely more valuable both short and long term.

The value charts have it around the 27th-29th pick. That is far more than his play suggested based on all the deals that happened (Hill, Adams, AJ Brown). However, he was worth that to Arizona because they both needed a WR and needed to keep their QB happy. Hollywood uniquely does both for them in a way that even AJ Brown could not.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
The C they got is likely more valuable both short and long term.

The value charts have it around the 27th-29th pick. That is far more than his play suggested based on all the deals that happened (Hill, Adams, AJ Brown). However, he was worth that to Arizona because they both needed a WR and needed to keep their QB happy. Hollywood uniquely does both for them in a way that even AJ Brown could not.
1. Those value charts don't reflect status of current draft class (i.e. a weaker first round than usual) and several of the people that modify those charts to reflect current draft classes had it as a mid 2nd rounder, but I'm not going to argue that back and forth.
2. The deals you listed also came with absorbing or adding on gigantic contracts. Hollywood doesn't. It's why you can get a similar deal for Orlando Brown when the Chiefs can get at least one year of low cost out of him. If you wait until he's actually expensive, the trade compensation drops significantly.
Maybe the Cardinals paid a slightly higher premium than others, but its really not outrageous at all to me, considering you gets two years at well below market value and the option to then sign long term after that.
 

Dom McRaven

Hall of Famer
Uh oh........

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UPennChem

Hall of Famer
A hobbled Hollywood Brown had more yards as a rookie in the Ravens historic rushing offense, then Odell Beckham had over the last 2 years combined. God was that Browns offense tragic. Wasted an enormous amount of talent. Just when they got Watson, no Beckham or Landry.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Roman is getting bashed so much. He's a convenient scape goat but I disagree with so much of it.
a bit tired of it.

100%
i had more issues in 2020 with some of the spacing
but much of that has been resolved in 2021 and while there are some playcalls i wish he'd burn out of the playbook, ive got very few schematic issues - i think you can quibble with some of his situational playcalling (at times) but i dont think he was that bad at it
 

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
Roman is getting bashed so much. He's a convenient scape goat but I disagree with so much of it.
a bit tired of it.

It doesn't help when it appears that players are talking about him. What Hollywood and Dez Bryant have said implies that it is on Roman and his play calling.

I am curious to know what Lamar is and isn't aloud to do in this offense. What are we waiting for to let Lamar run the offense?
 

purplepittabread88

Staff Member
Administrator
Am I the only one who is worried we don't have a playable corner #3 right now? Everyone bitched the only reason Cincy put up 500 yards on us was our shit secondary- as of right now Robert Jackson and Kevon SymoreTouchdowns are competing for slot.

Maybe Davis is ready by the end of the year, but he is surely a project.
Get me Joe haden...
 

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
Am I the only one who is worried we don't have a playable corner #3 right now? Everyone bitched the only reason Cincy put up 500 yards on us was our shit secondary- as of right now Robert Jackson and Kevon SymoreTouchdowns are competing for slot.

Maybe Davis is ready by the end of the year, but he is surely a project.
Get me Joe haden...
Somebody of Stephens, Washington, Davis, Williams, or a vet needs to be ready to go by the start of the season. I am not really at all too worried about the slot. I have way more concern about outside corner if Marlon or Marcus gets hurt. That's where we'll get destroyed. Lets bring the AFCN to Baltimore. Get Haden, get Landry, we already have Zeitler lol. Just do it
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Am I the only one who is worried we don't have a playable corner #3 right now? Everyone bitched the only reason Cincy put up 500 yards on us was our shit secondary- as of right now Robert Jackson and Kevon SymoreTouchdowns are competing for slot.

Maybe Davis is ready by the end of the year, but he is surely a project.
Get me Joe haden...
Stephens seems likely to take on that role, and we also drafted a rookie in the 4th round.
I think if you went around the league you'd realize there's a lot of really good teams that don't have a #3 corner. Some of them don't even have a #2 corner.
Also consider we're going to play a lot of 3 safety looks, where you'll have guys like Clark, Williams and Hamilton in coverage. I also expect we'll play a lot more zone coverage this year than we've seen in the past.
I wouldn't mind another Corner, but a big name is not something I think we need, can afford, or should prioritize. I don't know who are #2 WR is right now, and 2 of our top 3 edge rushers are coming off major injuries that may make them unavailable for at least the start of the season.
 

Edgar

Ravens Ring of Honor
100%
i had more issues in 2020 with some of the spacing
but much of that has been resolved in 2021 and while there are some playcalls i wish he'd burn out of the playbook, ive got very few schematic issues - i think you can quibble with some of his situational playcalling (at times) but i dont think he was that bad at it
I almost wrote the same words, "situational play calling at times":D

There is plenty of blame to go around and a lot seems to get dumped on Roman as the scape goat.
 

purplepittabread88

Staff Member
Administrator
Stephens seems likely to take on that role, and we also drafted a rookie in the 4th round.
I think if you went around the league you'd realize there's a lot of really good teams that don't have a #3 corner. Some of them don't even have a #2 corner.
Also consider we're going to play a lot of 3 safety looks, where you'll have guys like Clark, Williams and Hamilton in coverage. I also expect we'll play a lot more zone coverage this year than we've seen in the past.
I wouldn't mind another Corner, but a big name is not something I think we need, can afford, or should prioritize. I don't know who are #2 WR is right now, and 2 of our top 3 edge rushers are coming off major injuries that may make them unavailable for at least the start of the season.
you are correct about other teams not having a cb3 or even 2, but most of those teams have a good pass rush or wrs to keep up. they also dont play in a divison with the bengals
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
100%
i had more issues in 2020 with some of the spacing
but much of that has been resolved in 2021 and while there are some playcalls i wish he'd burn out of the playbook, ive got very few schematic issues - i think you can quibble with some of his situational playcalling (at times) but i dont think he was that bad at it
Situationally I have a problem with Roman, and by situationally I mean every single money down that he calls a qb stretch with an option for an out route.

i would’ve liked less squeezed in formations, more 11 and 12 personnel, but thats a pipe dream and we’re definitely staying heavy. and I’ve always wanted to see better executed screens and a rb passing game in general, and id like to see us replace a lot of read options with RPO concepts.

But the design? No I can’t hate it, Roman is a mad scientist and folks need to admit that, and he is a top 3 OC fit for Lamar in the league, I maintain that he would dominate a shanahan or mcvay offense, but Roman’s scheme is either the best fit, or 2nd/3rd at worst. His pass games will never be great, but he is the only OC I believe that could bring a bottom 12 passing offense to a super bowl with the right team, his run Game is that special.

That said, if we move on, I’m perfectly fine with it. I’m not clamoring to keep him, I think a different philosophy in general may be a good thing, but Roman will probably always have a job in the league
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Situationally I have a problem with Roman, and by situationally I mean every single money down that he calls a qb stretch with an option for an out route.

i would’ve liked less squeezed in formations, more 11 and 12 personnel, but thats a pipe dream and we’re definitely staying heavy. and I’ve always wanted to see better executed screens and a rb passing game in general, and id like to see us replace a lot of read options with RPO concepts.

But the design? No I can’t hate it, Roman is a mad scientist and folks need to admit that, and he is a top 3 OC fit for Lamar in the league, I maintain that he would dominate a shanahan or mcvay offense, but Roman’s scheme is either the best fit, or 2nd/3rd at worst. His pass games will never be great, but he is the only OC I believe that could bring a bottom 12 passing offense to a super bowl with the right team, his run Game is that special.

That said, if we move on, I’m perfectly fine with it. I’m not clamoring to keep him, I think a different philosophy in general may be a good thing, but Roman will probably always have a job in the league

i really also think the whole passing game thing is overblown - he's not andy reid but he does have a vertical based passing offence that thrives on explosive passing plays and efficiency through the air

and with the way they've given andrews (and formerly hollywood) freedom to go and attack space on certain plays, it's opened up massive opportunities for big plays within the scheme that might not be there within the rigid structure of the play... which is great then that that freedom to improvise is inherent within the offence - now that can lead to some spacing issues but as long as we're not looking at 2020 spacing issues with guys running into each other and actively closing passing windows then we'll be absolutely fine... im assuming they'll give bateman the freedom now to improvise within the structure of the play if he and lamar can build some chemistry through the offseason (because these improvisations only work if the receiver and lamar see the play the same way)

i do think that with kolar we will see more 12 personnel but what i would like to see, especially now that the OL looks a million times more assured, is us going 12 personnel with Andrews, Kolar and JK with Bateman and whoever WR 2 is and spreading the field out and maybe even going empty with 12 personnel because all 3 of those non-WR weapons have the athleticism to be genuine threats downfield - i dont think someone like Kolar shrinks this offence, he's just another mismatch to use - i would love to see us continue to use 11 as our base but it's possible that we dont have the personnel to do that unless we do add someone like Landry (which i do think we should)

i do think that i like when we add new voices to the offensive room and Tee and Keith were great additions last year and we'll see what george godsey can add this year as the TE coach

what i dont want to see is us go back to being a 22 and 13 personnel team because no matter what your personnel is in those groups, you're not threatening the defence in the passing game so it's really tough to punish defensive personnel from those formations because they're not worried about you hitting a home-run - maybe JK can punish but it seems maybe less so than if we went 12 and had the ability to legitimately align tight or spread it out

but yes... i would very much like someone to go into the offensive playbook and tear out any reference to qb stretch/qb roll-out from the 3rd/4th down play menu
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
you are correct about other teams not having a cb3 or even 2, but most of those teams have a good pass rush or wrs to keep up. they also dont play in a divison with the bengals
I mean OK, but we also don't play them every week. We play them twice. I'm not constructing my team solely to beat one team. That's a great way to get beat by a bunch of other teams.
 
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