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Joe Flacco

I think you two see where I'm going with this. It doesn't have to be the best quarterback in the game for this offense to work. It can be a guy who's simply above average in Wilson and this offense can work.

The Ravens have a lot of money tied up into veterans for this offense. Let's not pretend Joe has the worst supporting cast ever and excuse his play because of it.

Its a common theme for everyone else to shoulder the blame for our offense, like if we had weapons and protection and a ground game Flacco would play better.. well every QB would play better if everything was easier, but the game isnt easy and every team needs a QB who can win when things are difficult. Unfortunately we dont have one of those types of QBs but we still pay him like he is.
 

K-Dog

MVP
I'm just curious- if Aaron Rodgers were here and was completely healthy, do we think he has the same struggles that Flacco is right now?
All anyone can do is speculate, but I think a healthy A-Aron Rodgers here would do better, but it would not be a dramatic night and day difference.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Taking chances with these receivers has only lead to drops and picks.
You can only get burned so often until you stop touching that stove.
I said this in some thread (maybe this one, I'm not sure), but I would rather see a three and out where Joe threw 15 yards+ three times than a three and out where Joe checked down to the backs three times and netted 3 yards.

They aren't really doing anything to where an incompletion or an interception is going to really be more detrimental to their success than what they're doing now, if that makes sense.

Like, they're so conservative that an interception really doesn't feel that much worse.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
All anyone can do is speculate, but I think a healthy A-Aron Rodgers here would do better, but it would not be a dramatic night and day difference.
I think Aaron Rodgers, up there with Andrew Luck, is one of the few that can produce with less just by virtue of his play style. He's so athletic and can throw from such awkward angles with perfect accuracy that I really think this Ravens offense could be one of the best in the league with him.

A quarterback like Rivers or Prescott? Eh, I think a little improvement, but not night and day.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Its a common theme for everyone else to shoulder the blame for our offense, like if we had weapons and protection and a ground game Flacco would play better.. well every QB would play better if everything was easier, but the game isnt easy and every team needs a QB who can win when things are difficult. Unfortunately we dont have one of those types of QBs but we still pay him like he is.
And largely what it's coming down to for me is that Joe has the highest cap hit in the NFL. Before when he had the big salary and low cap hits, we could still put some quality pieces around him. But now, you really are going to have to sacrifice a little bit because there's only so much cap space to go around and your play should reflect your pay to a degree. I'm not expecting Joe to be the best quarterback in the league, but playing like one of the worst in the league is pretty unacceptable.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
And largely what it's coming down to for me is that Joe has the highest cap hit in the NFL. Before when he had the big salary and low cap hits, we could still put some quality pieces around him. But now, you really are going to have to sacrifice a little bit because there's only so much cap space to go around and your play should reflect your pay to a degree. I'm not expecting Joe to be the best quarterback in the league, but playing like one of the worst in the league is pretty unacceptable.
It’s absolutely unecceptable,
 

K-Dog

MVP
I said this in some thread (maybe this one, I'm not sure), but I would rather see a three and out where Joe threw 15 yards+ three times than a three and out where Joe checked down to the backs three times and netted 3 yards.

They aren't really doing anything to where an incompletion or an interception is going to really be more detrimental to their success than what they're doing now, if that makes sense.

Like, they're so conservative that an interception really doesn't feel that much worse.

As long as they don't become picks.

Our team gets its groove as a run first. Don't ask me why, it just does. I have been a proponent of "balance as opposing defences dicatake "
If an opponent has a swiss cheese D-line and an all star secondary, then your plan of attack should be obvious. Same as if your opposing secondary has their shoelaces tied together and their D-line is a concrete wall. This is all of course assuming all of your offensive components are gelling well, and even at that "balance as opposing defense dictates"
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
As long as they don't become picks.

Our team gets its groove as a run first. Don't ask me why, it just does. I have been a proponent of "balance as opposing defences dicatake "
If an opponent has a swiss cheese D-line and an all star secondary, then your plan of attack should be obvious. Same as if your opposing secondary has their shoelaces tied together and their D-line is a concrete wall. This is all of course assuming all of your offensive components are gelling well, and even at that "balance as opposing defense dictates"
The thing that gets me is that the running game has been going pretty consistently in most games, but people are upset that we run as much as we do. But then we get upset with the state of the passing game and the way the receivers are playing. It's a bit perplexing.

I will say that one major thing in Joe's defense today is there was a large lack of play action used today... but he didn't actually complete a pass off of it when it was called.
 

Militant X 1

Ravens Ring of Honor
The thing that gets me is that the running game has been going pretty consistently in most games, but people are upset that we run as much as we do. But then we get upset with the state of the passing game and the way the receivers are playing. It's a bit perplexing.

I will say that one major thing in Joe's defense today is there was a large lack of play action used today... but he didn't actually complete a pass off of it when it was called.

To me, Joe is not a good "drop back....make your quick reads" type of QB. Not at all! Sure, he needs receivers to make plays for him but he seems to thrive (like all QB's) more off of having a solid running game, play action and even the no huddle/spread from the Gun. He has that "big" arm that is being neutralized in this present system. If he is allowed to open up the offense more and get that ball to his receivers (who got to catch it) then maybe, just maybe, he wouldn't be playing so "bummified". :D:lol::giggle:
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
To me, Joe is not a good "drop back....make your quick reads" type of QB. Not at all! Sure, he needs receivers to make plays for him but he seems to thrive (like all QB's) more off of having a solid running game, play action and even the no huddle/spread from the Gun. Marty, in the like manner of previous O.C's not named Gary Kubiak has absolutely no idea how to properly use his personnel.
I’m in total agreement
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
To me, Joe is not a good "drop back....make your quick reads" type of QB. Not at all! Sure, he needs receivers to make plays for him but he seems to thrive (like all QB's) more off of having a solid running game, play action and even the no huddle/spread from the Gun. He has that "big" arm that is being neutralize in this present system. Marty, in the like manner of previous O.C's not named Gary Kubiak has absolutely no idea how to properly use his personnel.
I can more or less get behind that with how today went.
 

JAAM

Hall of Famer
If I’m Ozzie, I’m looking for Flacco’s replacement in the draft and having him sit behind Flacco until we can cut/trade Joe with little to no consequence. Having Mahomes sit behind Alex Smith revived his career. Maybe Flacco will finally get the hint.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
If I’m Ozzie, I’m looking for Flacco’s replacement in the draft and having him sit behind Flacco until we can cut/trade Joe with little to no consequence. Having Mahomes sit behind Alex Smith revived his career. Maybe Flacco will finally get the hint.
I have no problem drafting Flacco’s replacement, but I’m not going to overdraft a qb just to have a qb to replace joe in a couple years. However if we truly believe we have a franchise qb available at our pick then we need to pull the trigger. Other than that, wait until the 2nd round and take Nelson or a wr in the first. We need that big time as well.
 
I think an effective move is to take a WR in round one and then a QB round two. That way, you get Joe help with a receiver and with picking a QB in the 2nd round, you're showing that you are serious about him and that you're not going to stand by him having a bad year. I personally believe that next season will be his last shot but man, he has been so bad this year that I think there's a small chance we actually reach for someone like Josh Allen.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I think an effective move is to take a WR in round one and then a QB round two. That way, you get Joe help with a receiver and with picking a QB in the 2nd round, you're showing that you are serious about him and that you're not going to stand by him having a bad year. I personally believe that next season will be his last shot but man, he has been so bad this year that I think there's a small chance we actually reach for someone like Josh Allen.
Most wr take time to get adjusted to the nfl. Not sure this is the best route. I’d like a wr myself, but feel we need to be stout inside. Having a great running game is a great way to help joe. Then take qb in round 2 as you say.
 
Most wr take time to get adjusted to the nfl. Not sure this is the best route. I’d like a wr myself, but feel we need to be stout inside. Having a great running game is a great way to help joe. Then take qb in round 2 as you say.
I think there's plenty of time between now and the draft for some one to emerge, but I think a big problem on offense that has persisted longer then the OL is the lack of a play-maker. We've been in desperate need for one and it's a bigger need than anything. We don't have anyone who will make a play when we need it most, I think that's what we missed most in losing Steve Smith Sr. I honestly miss him because when we needed a play, he was always there to make one. Sadly, we don't have that on our offense. I'd take a play-maker at WR over Nelson if I had to make that choice.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I think there's plenty of time between now and the draft for some one to emerge, but I think a big problem on offense that has persisted longer then the OL is the lack of a play-maker. We've been in desperate need for one and it's a bigger need than anything. We don't have anyone who will make a play when we need it most, I think that's what we missed most in losing Steve Smith Sr. I honestly miss him because when we needed a play, he was always there to make one. Sadly, we don't have that on our offense. I'd take a play-maker at WR over Nelson if I had to make that choice.
We definitely are missing that playmaker and no question, losing Sr. Was a tough loss. I’d be cool with a wr, but I’m also an advocate of winning in the trenches, on both sides of ball. You win in the trenches you can start to develop an attitude as a team. We lost because of turnovers and losing in the trenches. Because we lost in the trenches, we couldn’t become consistent on O.
 
We definitely are missing that playmaker and no question, losing Sr. Was a tough loss. I’d be cool with a wr, but I’m also an advocate of winning in the trenches, on both sides of ball. You win in the trenches you can start to develop an attitude as a team. We lost because of turnovers and losing in the trenches. Because we lost in the trenches, we couldn’t become consistent on O.
It doesn't matter much winning in the trenches if no one can get open, I don't think we lost the game primarily because of our OL, the receiver group takes most of the blame to me. At least in this sense, we ran the football, what did we do in terms of receiving? I really cannot agree with us losing primarily because of turnovers and trenches. If you look at the Bears CBs, you can see that they had no fear of pressing at the LOS or making plays on the ball, they had no fear of the Ravens WRs and Joe couldn't progress through his reads long enough because no one could get open, there's were plenty of times in the games where he held the ball for too long without a receiver open. Also, Mike Wallace is turning 32, Jeremy Maclin is on and off the injury report and you're getting nothing from Perriman, I think you have to look at the receiver group as the weakest link on the team.

I know we have a deep seeded dislike for Antonio Brown and AJ Green but we badly need a WR in that build here, those two are able to make plays when it's badly needed and right now we don't have it. I know a lot of people say that you don't need a super-star WR here but if you don't have that then at best you get a good unit of receivers who can make plays and right now we don't have that. I think there's a lot of games we've lost in the past because of a lack of play-makers.
 
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