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rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Wasn't really until like 2016 where drafts started looking a lot better. You look at 16-19 and we hit on all of our high draft picks mostly (Stanley, Marlon, Bowser, Lamar, Hollywood), and then we got great values from Andrews, OBJ, Averett, Elliott, Bozeman, Clark and Judon.

If you compare the 1st-3rd round picks that we took from like 09 through 15, to the one's we've taken in the last five years, its a joke how different they've been.

dont forget tavon young in 2016 too... and a number of udfas of note: michael pierce, zach orr, gus edwards, pat mekari

the big glaring frustrations have to be the double misses in 2016 with Correa and Kaufusi then backed up in 2017 by Bowser taking a while to come on and Tim Williams and Chris Wormley amounting to very little too

even Hayden Hurst doesn't rankle that much albeit it is frustrating given how even more insane that 2018 draft could have been if we'd nailed the other 1st round pick too
 

Nurps

Ravens Ring of Honor
bro.. if we win the Super Bowl this season, I might get a raven-themed tattoo to remember it forever. It’s been such a wild ride. Lol.

my wife better hope we don’t haha
Oh I certainly will. I have plenty already, even a raven skull incorporated into one.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
dont forget tavon young in 2016 too... and a number of udfas of note: michael pierce, zach orr, gus edwards, pat mekari

the big glaring frustrations have to be the double misses in 2016 with Correa and Kaufusi then backed up in 2017 by Bowser taking a while to come on and Tim Williams and Chris Wormley amounting to very little too

even Hayden Hurst doesn't rankle that much albeit it is frustrating given how even more insane that 2018 draft could have been if we'd nailed the other 1st round pick too
Agreed. I think the overall premise is we were basically hitting homeruns with first rounders recently. Lamar, Marlon, Stanley, even Hollywood. These guys are high end players at their positions that could start just about anywhere on this league.
We really didn't have many, if any, of those during most of Flacco's tenure. We'd get some quality players in the mid to late rounds at key spots, but not a lot of playmakers, and no truly like All-Pro level players. Jimmy Smith, who was obviously a high end starter in his prime, was probably the best first round pick over like an 8 year period. That's simply not very good, really. And our struggles in round 2 were well documented.
I mean Bowser was a fringe roster player for a couple years, and he's probably easily like one of the top 3-4 2nd round picks we've seen from this franchise in a decade or more.
In the Harbaugh era, we've seen two high quality RBs taken in the 2nd round (Rice and Dobbins... over a decade apart), Torrey Smith, and KO. Bowser would probably be up there with Kruger. That's over a 14 draft period.
And in actuality, it apparently sort of goes back to the beginning of the franchise. If my math is correct, Ray Rice and Tyus Bowser are the only two 2nd round picks in franchise history to get contract extensions. I could be wrong, but even when I go back to the pre-Harbaugh era, I don't see a single 2nd rounder who played more than 5 years here, and I'm pretty sure they only played five because rookies had five year contracts in the older CBA agreements.
By my count, that's 22 draft picks who are or were eligible for extensions, and only 2 got one. That would be an acceptable ratio for like 6th round picks. Not for 2nd rounders.
 

Argentina Raven

Practice Squad
If we think about it, we were lucky with Lamar at 32, let's not forget that Hurst was our first pick.
what would have happened to us ...
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Agreed. I think the overall premise is we were basically hitting homeruns with first rounders recently. Lamar, Marlon, Stanley, even Hollywood. These guys are high end players at their positions that could start just about anywhere on this league.
We really didn't have many, if any, of those during most of Flacco's tenure. We'd get some quality players in the mid to late rounds at key spots, but not a lot of playmakers, and no truly like All-Pro level players. Jimmy Smith, who was obviously a high end starter in his prime, was probably the best first round pick over like an 8 year period. That's simply not very good, really. And our struggles in round 2 were well documented.
I mean Bowser was a fringe roster player for a couple years, and he's probably easily like one of the top 3-4 2nd round picks we've seen from this franchise in a decade or more.
In the Harbaugh era, we've seen two high quality RBs taken in the 2nd round (Rice and Dobbins... over a decade apart), Torrey Smith, and KO. Bowser would probably be up there with Kruger. That's over a 14 draft period.
And in actuality, it apparently sort of goes back to the beginning of the franchise. If my math is correct, Ray Rice and Tyus Bowser are the only two 2nd round picks in franchise history to get contract extensions. I could be wrong, but even when I go back to the pre-Harbaugh era, I don't see a single 2nd rounder who played more than 5 years here, and I'm pretty sure they only played five because rookies had five year contracts in the older CBA agreements.
By my count, that's 22 draft picks who are or were eligible for extensions, and only 2 got one. That would be an acceptable ratio for like 6th round picks. Not for 2nd rounders.
interesting. I only became a Ravens fan in 2014 and knew about some of these issues but not the specifics like you laid out. That's really interesting. Something must have changed, prior to EDC becoming GM, in the Ravens front office and I'm not talking about luck.

Since we drafted Lamar we also haven't had 2nd round picks in 2018, 2019 (both 2nd's traded to Philly to pick 32nd in 2018) and 2021 (part of the package traded to KC to acquire their 1st round pick).
 
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Dom McRaven

Hall of Famer
The fact that the "are the Steelers done" narrative is back to being prevalent worries me about this game.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
The fact that the "are the Steelers done" narrative is back to being prevalent worries me about this game.
I mean, even if they beat us, I've still got them in the "done" column. They've got a brutal final six games of the year, and nobody has seen anything from them to suggest they're consistent enough to make a run. They'd need to show me something they haven't shown me, quite frankly, in two years.

Its a road rivalry game in the division. We're better than them, but it doesn't mean we'll win either. If we go 3-3 or 4-2 in the division this year, it wouldn't surprise me.

I could make a case that they're arguably one of the more desperate teams in the league. If they lose this game, from a practicality perspective, their season is effectively over. They'd be 5-6-1, and would need to practically win out to guarantee a playoff spot, because even going 9-7-1 isn't a guaranteed playoff spot in the AFC. That means they'd have to go beat Baltimore, KC and Minnesota on the road (short week for the Vikings game) and have to beat Cleveland and Tennessee at home.
And if you're the Ravens, a loss means we're 8-4. Not even close to a killer loss for us. We'll still be at least 2nd place in the division at the end of the day, no matter what.

Desperate teams usually rise to the occasion. I expect the Ravens to win, but I expect it to be a close game and I expect us to get Pittsburgh's best punches regardless.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
interesting. I only became a Ravens fan in 2014 and knew about some of these issues but not the specifics like you laid out. That's really interesting. Something must have changed, prior to EDC becoming GM, in the Ravens front office and I'm not talking about luck.

Since we drafted Lamar we also haven't had 2nd round picks in 2018, 2019 (both 2nd's traded to Philly to pick 32nd in 2018) and 2021 (part of the package traded to KC to acquire their 1st round pick).
The conspiracy theorist would tell you that perhaps the FO has realized its shortcomings in that round and adjusted its draft strategy accordingly. But I think a lot of it is just random chance in some ways. We historically pick quite late in the draft, so it gives us opportunities to either move up or back. Historically when we've moved back out of the first, things haven't gone that well.

2010 - traded out of first with Broncos so they could take Tebow. We ended up with Sergio Kindle, Ed Dickson, and Dennis Pitta from that trade.
Quality players who were available at that spot include Devin McCourty, Jerry Hughes, Patrick Robinson, Rodger Saffold, and Gronk, who went one pick before Kindle.
2012 - traded out of first with Vikings so they could take Harrison Smith. We ended up with Courtney Upshaw and Gino Gradkowski.
Quality players who were available at that spot include Harrison Smith, Derek Wolfe, Mitchell Schwartz, and Janoris Jenkins (who we also passed on all of these guys to take Upshaw). While they're not exactly playing the same position, we also took Upshaw over the likes of Lavonte David and, gulp, Bobby Wagner.
Just think if we had put Wagner next to Ray Lewis for a year and let him take over the reigns. Sigh.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
The conspiracy theorist would tell you that perhaps the FO has realized its shortcomings in that round and adjusted its draft strategy accordingly. But I think a lot of it is just random chance in some ways. We historically pick quite late in the draft, so it gives us opportunities to either move up or back. Historically when we've moved back out of the first, things haven't gone that well.

2010 - traded out of first with Broncos so they could take Tebow. We ended up with Sergio Kindle, Ed Dickson, and Dennis Pitta from that trade.
Quality players who were available at that spot include Devin McCourty, Jerry Hughes, Patrick Robinson, Rodger Saffold, and Gronk, who went one pick before Kindle.
2012 - traded out of first with Vikings so they could take Harrison Smith. We ended up with Courtney Upshaw and Gino Gradkowski.
Quality players who were available at that spot include Harrison Smith, Derek Wolfe, Mitchell Schwartz, and Janoris Jenkins (who we also passed on all of these guys to take Upshaw). While they're not exactly playing the same position, we also took Upshaw over the likes of Lavonte David and, gulp, Bobby Wagner.
Just think if we had put Wagner next to Ray Lewis for a year and let him take over the reigns. Sigh.
your last statement is breathtaking.
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
bro.. if we win the Super Bowl this season, I might get a raven-themed tattoo to remember it forever. It’s been such a wild ride. Lol.

my wife better hope we don’t haha

Ha! Do it. I’ve got one arm sleeve done and one leg sleeve done. My leg sleeve has all kinds of crazy/ funny shit like a Raven logo, Donald Duck, Forrest Gump…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Agreed. I think the overall premise is we were basically hitting homeruns with first rounders recently. Lamar, Marlon, Stanley, even Hollywood. These guys are high end players at their positions that could start just about anywhere on this league.
We really didn't have many, if any, of those during most of Flacco's tenure. We'd get some quality players in the mid to late rounds at key spots, but not a lot of playmakers, and no truly like All-Pro level players. Jimmy Smith, who was obviously a high end starter in his prime, was probably the best first round pick over like an 8 year period. That's simply not very good, really. And our struggles in round 2 were well documented.
I mean Bowser was a fringe roster player for a couple years, and he's probably easily like one of the top 3-4 2nd round picks we've seen from this franchise in a decade or more.
In the Harbaugh era, we've seen two high quality RBs taken in the 2nd round (Rice and Dobbins... over a decade apart), Torrey Smith, and KO. Bowser would probably be up there with Kruger. That's over a 14 draft period.
And in actuality, it apparently sort of goes back to the beginning of the franchise. If my math is correct, Ray Rice and Tyus Bowser are the only two 2nd round picks in franchise history to get contract extensions. I could be wrong, but even when I go back to the pre-Harbaugh era, I don't see a single 2nd rounder who played more than 5 years here, and I'm pretty sure they only played five because rookies had five year contracts in the older CBA agreements.
By my count, that's 22 draft picks who are or were eligible for extensions, and only 2 got one. That would be an acceptable ratio for like 6th round picks. Not for 2nd rounders.

The 2nd round has been a notorious blindspot for the ravens and it seems like recently the answer has been to just stop drafting in the 2nd round lol (traded up to get Lamar meaning we didn’t have a 2nd in 2018 or 2019), ended up with 2 2nd rounders in 2020 but traded 1 away to get more picks and also got dobbins, 2021 traded our 2nd away

tyus and jk are the only 2nd rounders we’ve drafted since 2016

obviously I’m being facetious lol but hard to draft good players if you don’t make picks - the biggest way we’ve corrected the can’t draft WRs narrative was to start drafting more WRs... hard to fix the 2nd rounder narrative without drafting 2nd rounders lol

in terms of the best pre-2016 pick it’s probably jimmy but you could argue CJ given he was playing at the top of the game while he was here
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
de70a35751890cd93dada7a00e173ce4.jpg

All white this Sunday. Let’s Go!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
The 2nd round has been a notorious blindspot for the ravens and it seems like recently the answer has been to just stop drafting in the 2nd round lol (traded up to get Lamar meaning we didn’t have a 2nd in 2018 or 2019), ended up with 2 2nd rounders in 2020 but traded 1 away to get more picks and also got dobbins, 2021 traded our 2nd away

tyus and jk are the only 2nd rounders we’ve drafted since 2016

obviously I’m being facetious lol but hard to draft good players if you don’t make picks - the biggest way we’ve corrected the can’t draft WRs narrative was to start drafting more WRs... hard to fix the 2nd rounder narrative without drafting 2nd rounders lol

in terms of the best pre-2016 pick it’s probably jimmy but you could argue CJ given he was playing at the top of the game while he was here
Yeah I mean its hard to explain. Conceptually the FO marks itself on "value" and being able to find talented players that others seemingly don't value as highly, but it seems like historically that only applies to guys drafted outside of like the top 65, which makes no sense.
But historically we've failed miserably at drafting WRs also, so it could just be that there's some sort of gap in talent evaluation in that part of the draft. I guess you could pigeon hole some of these 2nd rounders as like "first round talents with off-field or injury issues" or maybe like highly productive guys in college who don't jump off the page athletically or attribute-wise, but there's probably no rhyme or reason to it probably.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Yeah I mean its hard to explain. Conceptually the FO marks itself on "value" and being able to find talented players that others seemingly don't value as highly, but it seems like historically that only applies to guys drafted outside of like the top 65, which makes no sense.
But historically we've failed miserably at drafting WRs also, so it could just be that there's some sort of gap in talent evaluation in that part of the draft. I guess you could pigeon hole some of these 2nd rounders as like "first round talents with off-field or injury issues" or maybe like highly productive guys in college who don't jump off the page athletically or attribute-wise, but there's probably no rhyme or reason to it probably.

i mean for me the lack of WR hits was always obviously about a lack of investment in the position not much more than that...

the last 4-5 years we've started taking more swings and the last 3 years we've started taking more higher swings too - 1 and 3 in 2019, 3 and 6 in 2020 and 1 and 4 in 2021... and we're now suddenly getting significant contributions from that unit and all 6 are still on the roster (although 1 probably shouldnt be for long)
 

ravenslord

Ravens Ring of Honor
i mean for me the lack of WR hits was always obviously about a lack of investment in the position not much more than that...

the last 4-5 years we've started taking more swings and the last 3 years we've started taking more higher swings too - 1 and 3 in 2019, 3 and 6 in 2020 and 1 and 4 in 2021... and we're now suddenly getting significant contributions from that unit and all 6 are still on the roster (although 1 probably shouldnt be for long)
Bateman look like a big win for us. Honestly ,i think he could surpass Hollywood as a great pick.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer


the positive (for lack of a better word) is that both tavon and marlon's covid tests came back negative this morning per Zrebiec

the negative is that yet again we've got a injury report that you can only read on this phone:

0b3.jpg

You’re a real b4stard for sharing a picture that makes me scroll so much
 

Nurps

Ravens Ring of Honor


the positive (for lack of a better word) is that both tavon and marlon's covid tests came back negative this morning per Zrebiec

the negative is that yet again we've got a injury report that you can only read on this phone:

0b3.jpg


would be hilarious if it wasn’t about an injury report.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
i mean for me the lack of WR hits was always obviously about a lack of investment in the position not much more than that...

the last 4-5 years we've started taking more swings and the last 3 years we've started taking more higher swings too - 1 and 3 in 2019, 3 and 6 in 2020 and 1 and 4 in 2021... and we're now suddenly getting significant contributions from that unit and all 6 are still on the roster (although 1 probably shouldnt be for long)
and especially more swings on day 1 and 2. We had a huge miss in 2015 when we drafted Perriman, but the only other receiver we drafted in the first two rounds while Flacco was QB was Torrey Smith. Other than that they were day three players and we didn't do well with those picks, obviously.
 

Davesta

Ravens Ring of Honor
Ha! Do it. I’ve got one arm sleeve done and one leg sleeve done. My leg sleeve has all kinds of crazy/ funny shit like a Raven logo, Donald Duck, Forrest Gump…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I showed her plenty of ravens themed tattoo pictures. Permission slip still not signed. Ha!
 
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