Lamar Jackson

[Ellicottraven]

I’m become more enamored by the day with the thought of trading a 2, 3, and 4 to move up for one of the big 3, and then still having a pick in each of the first 4 rounds.

If you told me before the comp picks and trades, that we could get one of jeudy, lamb, or ruggs, and have a haul like a Robert Hunt or a tier 2 DT and dye/davis-Gaither/Kareem/highsmith/gay jr. on day 2, I’d say no way is that possible and we also wouldn’t be able to top that.

I don't think they go for that imo. EDC likes picks because the believes it is a numbers game. The more shots you get the better your chances. The proposed strategy defies that logic considering it is a really deep draft for WRs especially. Just given the uncertainty of

The fact that someone is actually comparing Lamar to Fitz-Tragic is astonishing to me. The lengths that people will go to doubt this man's skills.

There is almost this incessant desire to undermine Lamar's achievements as a QB from jealous fans of other teams and a section of media. It is baffling to me that they keep throwing shit up against the wall hoping something will stick. But, the problem is they come up with powder shit that falls apart before hitting anything.

 

[BloodRaven]

Whoever Lamar supports is irrelevant to me since I don't support either candidate, and if I did it would still be irrelevant. Lamar could support Kim Jong il and hes still going to be my QB.

 

[allblackraven]

It is the risk that anyone takes saying anything positive publicly about Trump or defending anything that is on the conservative side of the political spectrum. The culture cultivated by our media has successfully equated conservatism with racism, fascism, misogyny, xenophobia and the list goes on. An athlete gets a positive tweet from The President of the United States, simply gives a thankful acknowledgement and is then subject to be scorned.

Fundamentally, freedom of speech has been hindered by this tactic. I can sit on a work phone conference and before we get down to business have a chorus of people lambasting the president ... and anyone who would wish to defend him or his political view sit silent and don't dare express an opinion in the workplace. If the same kind of conversation had been taking place with regard to a liberal political figure, you can guarantee HR would be hearing from someone on the call about how this was inappropriate and those involved would potentially hear about it.

What the media doesn't understand is that a significant segment of those who vote against their wishes, do so in an act of defiance. It is also why no poll can be trusted. People on the conservative side of the spectrum are frightened to express an opinion because of how they will be labeled. They just keep their mouth shut and vote.

Sorry if getting too political, but it is a Lamar thread and this does involve Lamar.

The stuff Trump is pulling since he's been elected goes way beyond politics, you know that. Perhaps if GOP stayed true to their values, civilised conversation would be possible in the workplace, too. Giving Trump blanco support for everything by being completely silent, even when he's blatantly wrong just to advance some of their goals, is what actually ruins any semblance of a democratic political discourse. This forum is way more civil than anything out there in real world, starting with the White House.

Trump is dangerous, GOP either don't realise that or they do but are letting go of more rope. I'm not sure which of these two is worse for everybody.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

lmfaoooo

 

[Ellicottraven]

this is what his blindside protector thought of the 2-word tweet tbf...

Just to give that tweet some context!

 

[balfan23]

The stuff Trump is pulling since he's been elected goes way beyond politics, you know that. Perhaps if GOP stayed true to their values, civilised conversation would be possible in the workplace, too. Giving Trump blanco support for everything by being completely silent, even when he's blatantly wrong just to advance some of their goals, is what actually ruins any semblance of a democratic political discourse. This forum is way more civil than anything out there in real world, starting with the White House.

Trump is dangerous, GOP either don't realise that or they do but are letting go of more rope. I'm not sure which of these two is worse for everybody.

I would contend that much of the Democratic Party is dangerous, but then people have different views and beliefs. The GOP by and large doesn’t like Trump never has. Many that vote for him don’t like him either but are more willing to go with him than what they see from the other side.

As this is not The well mannered politics thread I’ll leave it there. I realize this is a more civil forum than most places which means I’m willing to post a political item here once in a great while as opposed to never.

 

[Charm City]

As this is not The well mannered politics thread I’ll leave it there. I realize this is a more civil forum than most places which means I’m willing to post a political item here once in a great while as opposed to never.

I also appreciate that we have many different view points on this forum, even aside from politics. The last thing I would want is for this to be another echo chamber on the internet. We don't get better as individuals by only listening to people that agree with our own opinions.

 

[balfan23]

I’m become more enamored by the day with the thought of trading a 2, 3, and 4 to move up for one of the big 3, and then still having a pick in each of the first 4 rounds.

If you told me before the comp picks and trades, that we could get one of jeudy, lamb, or ruggs, and have a haul like a Robert Hunt or a tier 2 DT and dye/davis-Gaither/Kareem/highsmith/gay jr. on day 2, I’d say no way is that possible and we also wouldn’t be able to top that.

I think I agree with @Ellicottraven on this and I don't think we give up that load of picks to move up for Jeudy, Lamb or Ruggs. There are no guarantees, there are only increased probabilities when it comes to drafting. So it does come down to the numbers game that Ellicot brought up.

EDC said in a presser that people need to stop bringing up Jones as the reason why that kind of move is worth it, because that is taking a single example and stating it to be your guaranteed result. How many top 10 WRs have we seen taken over recent years who have been outplayed by a large # of 2nd/3rd round WRs? I'm not going to try to enumerate that but there are plenty of examples I'm sure.

If this draft is half as awesome as it is reported to be, picks are going to be of great value. While we do have a lot of them and I don't think we're going to keep them all because I do think we'll make a few strategic trades up when someone we rank highly has fallen into a range where we believe a trade up will not cost too much. What you suggest isn't outside the realm of possible, but I think the chances are very, very slim that we make that kind of massive move up in the 1st.

 

[Dom McRaven]

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



But then again, LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I think I agree with @Ellicottraven on this and I don't think we give up that load of picks to move up for Jeudy, Lamb or Ruggs. There are no guarantees, there are only increased probabilities when it comes to drafting. So it does come down to the numbers game that Ellicot brought up.

EDC said in a presser that people need to stop bringing up Jones as the reason why that kind of move is worth it, because that is taking a single example and stating it to be your guaranteed result. How many top 10 WRs have we seen taken over recent years who have been outplayed by a large # of 2nd/3rd round WRs? I'm not going to try to enumerate that but there are plenty of examples I'm sure.

If this draft is half as awesome as it is reported to be, picks are going to be of great value. While we do have a lot of them and I don't think we're going to keep them all because I do think we'll make a few strategic trades up when someone we rank highly has fallen into a range where we believe a trade up will not cost too much. What you suggest isn't outside the realm of possible, but I think the chances are very, very slim that we make that kind of massive move up in the 1st.

The WRs that have been outplayed though are usually guys with question marks and weren’t traded up for, the top 2 in this class have absolutely no question marks as to whether or not they’ll be successful, the third is basically guaranteed to at the very worst bring massive value in speed presence alone and he’s a long shot in general to not be a quality nfl receiver.

I personally believe that the talk of this being a deep wr class is bullshit, this class is so highly touted because there are like 6 first round talents at wr, but it becomes less deep when you factor in the likelihood that literally all of them go in the first, after that initial drop off it becomes a pretty standard wr class, if I can trade that haul for one of the big 3, as opposed to taking whoever is there at 28 and then getting someone like an edwards, aiyuk, hamler, or Pittman in R2, I’m taking the former, absolutely. The big 3 are slam dunk prospects who are only at risk to fail due to injury, the rest are far from that, matter of fact the only guy in that list I just wrote off that I’m comfortable with at all on day 2 is Edwards, and yeah I’m VERY comfortable with Edwards, but the rest I honestly feel no type of confidence in them, and really don’t consider any of them a round 2 prospect.

 

[cdp]

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



But then again, LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Updated...

 

[balfan23]

The WRs that have been outplayed though are usually guys with question marks and weren’t traded up for, the top 2 in this class have absolutely no question marks as to whether or not they’ll be successful, the third is basically guaranteed to at the very worst bring massive value in speed presence alone and he’s a long shot in general to not be a quality nfl receiver.

I personally believe that the talk of this being a deep wr class is bullshit, this class is so highly touted because there are like 6 first round talents at wr, but it becomes less deep when you factor in the likelihood that literally all of them go in the first, after that initial drop off it becomes a pretty standard wr class, if I can trade that haul for one of the big 3, as opposed to taking whoever is there at 28 and then getting someone like an edwards, aiyuk, hamler, or Pittman in R2, I’m taking the former, absolutely. The big 3 are slam dunk prospects who are only at risk to fail due to injury, the rest are far from that, matter of fact the only guy in that list I just wrote off that I’m comfortable with at all on day 2 is Edwards, and yeah I’m VERY comfortable with Edwards, but the rest I honestly feel no type of confidence in them, and really don’t consider any of them a round 2 prospect.

I understand the notion that 1 big time playmaker > 3 solid starting players ... if these 3 guys are a slam dunk, then maybe. In my previous post I was speaking of the depth of the class overall and not just the WR position. My understanding is that people are touting it as being a historic draft in terms of depth, perhaps not at all positions (most notable EDGE and TE) but you will be able to get really solid starting talent on day 3.

If the #1 focus in this draft is for us to come away with a #1 WR, then this trade up makes sense because we are in an awkward spot being so late in the 1st. I too am really loving what I've heard about Edwards and just don't know what to expect in terms of where he'll go but #28 feels like a reach and #55 is an unreasonable expectation. But I believe our #1 focus in this draft is building the trenches on the O line. I know you are saying we can do the trade up and still get quality on the O line. That would be having our cake and eating it too, but I don't know if that is realistic.

I can tell you now if we do this I will not hate it. I rarely hate anything we do because I simply have not spent the time to entrench myself into a position on what our draft should look like, so I tend to go with the flow on what we've done and trust our organization. EDC said that kind of trade is very risky ... but then interviewed Lamb. One is a smokescreen and one is not ... which one is which I guess we'll find out soon.

 

[rossihunter2]

If the #1 focus in this draft is for us to come away with a #1 WR, then this trade up makes sense because we are in an awkward spot being so late in the 1st. I too am really loving what I've heard about Edwards and just don't know what to expect in terms of where he'll go but #28 feels like a reach and #55 is an unreasonable expectation. But I believe our #1 focus in this draft is building the trenches on the O line. I know you are saying we can do the trade up and still get quality on the O line. That would be having our cake and eating it too, but I don't know if that is realistic.

idk that 55 is unreasonable for edwards - lots of people think of him highly but with his foot injury preventing him from testing and supposedly some teams having speed concerns - the media has consistently tabbed him in the 3rd round - 55 doesnt seem like a ridiculous proposition for me

 

[balfan23]

idk that 55 is unreasonable for edwards - lots of people think of him highly but with his foot injury preventing him from testing and supposedly some teams having speed concerns - the media has consistently tabbed him in the 3rd round - 55 doesnt seem like a ridiculous proposition for me

OMG trying to get a handle on when someone will go is always really hard to do, but this draft it seems tougher than normal. I really feel like Edwards is being rated much higher among us Ravens fans than most others. I've just reviewed no less that 10 big boards and he was not in the top 12 on any of them. I think we view him higher than most because his scouting report just makes him sound like a Raven fit. Big, tough, willing to do dirty work, etc.

Perhaps more a question for @JoeyFlex5 ... but he contends this is not as deep a WR class as some are predicting ... because in his opinion, after the top 6 it is a standard draft class. I can guess 4 of the 6, between 5-15 people are literally all over the place. I'm not sure what this lack of consensus indicates ... a part of me makes me think it is a sign of the strength of the overall class because there are players that are going to drop that have some clear traits that have a chance of making them an NFL success. I have also looked at Pittman as a good 2nd round possibility but I actually see more analysts ranking him over Edwards.

Back to the trade up concept ... one of the things I'm struggling with is - how far up are we going to need to go up to get one? 11-13 (Jets, Raiders and Indy) are all frequently mocked to take one of them and assuming no one in the top 10 takes one and one of those 3 teams go in a different direction, then 14 is how far up we'd have to trade. That's assuming it doesn't matter to us which one falls or that it just so happens the one we want is the one that fell.

That trade just feels like a mega long shot.

 

[rossihunter2]

OMG trying to get a handle on when someone will go is always really hard to do, but this draft it seems tougher than normal. I really feel like Edwards is being rated much higher among us Ravens fans than most others. I've just reviewed no less that 10 big boards and he was not in the top 12 on any of them. I think we view him higher than most because his scouting report just makes him sound like a Raven fit. Big, tough, willing to do dirty work, etc.

Perhaps more a question for @JoeyFlex5 ... but he contends this is not as deep a WR class as some are predicting ... because in his opinion, after the top 6 it is a standard draft class. I can guess 4 of the 6, between 5-15 people are literally all over the place. I'm not sure what this lack of consensus indicates ... a part of me makes me think it is a sign of the strength of the overall class because there are players that are going to drop that have some clear traits that have a chance of making them an NFL success. I have also looked at Pittman as a good 2nd round possibility but I actually see more analysts ranking him over Edwards.

Back to the trade up concept ... one of the things I'm struggling with is - how far up are we going to need to go up to get one? 11-13 (Jets, Raiders and Indy) are all frequently mocked to take one of them and assuming no one in the top 10 takes one and one of those 3 teams go in a different direction, then 14 is how far up we'd have to trade. That's assuming it doesn't matter to us which one falls or that it just so happens the one we want is the one that fell.

That trade just feels like a mega long shot.

absolutely - lots of mocks have one of the consensus top 3 WRs falling to 21 but I think the Eagles probably are going to have to move up in the draft to get one of those top 3 guys even so I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect any of them being available

 

[allblackraven]

I understand the notion that 1 big time playmaker > 3 solid starting players ... if these 3 guys are a slam dunk, then maybe. In my previous post I was speaking of the depth of the class overall and not just the WR position. My understanding is that people are touting it as being a historic draft in terms of depth, perhaps not at all positions (most notable EDGE and TE) but you will be able to get really solid starting talent on day 3.

If the #1 focus in this draft is for us to come away with a #1 WR, then this trade up makes sense because we are in an awkward spot being so late in the 1st. I too am really loving what I've heard about Edwards and just don't know what to expect in terms of where he'll go but #28 feels like a reach and #55 is an unreasonable expectation. But I believe our #1 focus in this draft is building the trenches on the O line. I know you are saying we can do the trade up and still get quality on the O line. That would be having our cake and eating it too, but I don't know if that is realistic.

I can tell you now if we do this I will not hate it. I rarely hate anything we do because I simply have not spent the time to entrench myself into a position on what our draft should look like, so I tend to go with the flow on what we've done and trust our organization. EDC said that kind of trade is very risky ... but then interviewed Lamb. One is a smokescreen and one is not ... which one is which I guess we'll find out soon.

That would be a major shift in our team building philosophy, I just don't see EDC doing a big jump in 1st. Particularly not for WR1, considering we already have our guy in Brown and the fact that there just isn't enough targets for everybody in our offense. My bet is on both trenches and secondary unless a clear star player (any position) is on the board when we pick. With our first 5 picks this week we could solidify Ravens foreseeable future.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Another thing that gets lost in the trade talk is that it doesn’t have to be for a wr either. There is one thing we are certain of, Eric decosta wants an edge rusher, point blank period, he has been desperate for one for years, but we also play a positionless style of defense, there may not be a better player for us in this entire class than k’lavon chaisson, who would require potentially less resources to move up for, because I think 15 is the earliest we need to move up to pass the falcons and cowboys. Chaisson is also a guy who would tickle harbaughs fancy, being an ultimate motor guy with great positional flexibility.

I just have this strong feeling the closer we get that we wanna move up and make a splash. I think chaisson or one of the big 3 receivers are a really big target for us. It’s just a hunch, I don’t ever think I’ve felt like we’re gonna trade up or make a splash, every draft it’s always felt like we’re gonna wait or trade back, but this year it feels distinctly different.

 

[rossihunter2]

Another thing that gets lost in the trade talk is that it doesn’t have to be for a wr either. There is one thing we are certain of, Eric decosta wants an edge rusher, point blank period, he has been desperate for one for years, but we also play a positionless style of defense, there may not be a better player for us in this entire class than k’lavon chaisson, who would require potentially less resources to move up for, because I think 15 is the earliest we need to move up to pass the falcons and cowboys. Chaisson is also a guy who would tickle harbaughs fancy, being an ultimate motor guy with great positional flexibility.

I just have this strong feeling the closer we get that we wanna move up and make a splash. I think chaisson or one of the big 3 receivers are a really big target for us. It’s just a hunch, I don’t ever think I’ve felt like we’re gonna trade up or make a splash, every draft it’s always felt like we’re gonna wait or trade back, but this year it feels distinctly different.

i wonder if there might be a bidding war for chaisson that means he ends up getting taken higher than 15

but i think you're right about trading up...

I think it was DJ who said that he doesnt see the value in a 1st round trade up unless you're going up for either a QB or an EDGE - that being said I think we'll be carefully monitoring all the front 7 talent in this class and if by any miracle someone like Javon Kinlaw started to fall or someone else in the front 7 (not sure who that would be though), I could for sure see us think about a move up to grab someone like Kinlaw

 

[Ellicottraven]

That would be a major shift in our team building philosophy, I just don't see EDC doing a big jump in 1st. Particularly not for WR1, considering we already have our guy in Brown and the fact that there just isn't enough targets for everybody in our offense. My bet is on both trenches and secondary unless a clear star player (any position) is on the board when we pick. With our first 5 picks this week we could solidify Ravens foreseeable future.

My view is quite simple. If it takes moving up several slots to pick one of the top 3 receivers in the low to mid teens, I don't believe EDC will do it. However, for some reason one of the WRs we highly covet and is ranked at the top of our board falls into the 20s and it doesn't require a whole lot of draft capital to trade up, I believe EDC won't hesitate to move up. But, the former scenario to me is most likely on draft day. I believe we'll pick a receiver or more likely two but in the 2nd round and later.

 

[balfan23]

That would be a major shift in our team building philosophy, I just don't see EDC doing a big jump in 1st. Particularly not for WR1, considering we already have our guy in Brown and the fact that there just isn't enough targets for everybody in our offense. My bet is on both trenches and secondary unless a clear star player (any position) is on the board when we pick. With our first 5 picks this week we could solidify Ravens foreseeable future.

Yeah I mean I agree - in that post I was just rolling with Joey's take and admitting that I tend to fall in line with whatever our organization decides ... but I have said too that "That trade just feels like a mega long shot."

My expectation is Ruiz or possibly Epenesa with that first pick and WR in the 2nd. You comment about solidifying for the future - that's what we potentially give up with such a trade. Those picks could be solid starters in a year or two and would allows us to fill some holes left by players we won't be able to afford when we need to start paying out to the guys we are absolutely locked in on keeping.

It is really exciting to hear this is a solid draft class and that we've got a nice set of picks.