Lamar Jackson

[RavensMania]

Agreed.

What I DON'T want to see is us backload the crap out of Lamar's deal, assuming he get's one. If he's going to be signing a $40M a year deal, I would certainly hope is year 1 cap hit is at least $30M, or possibly more. I'd like to see it straight-lined as much as possible. That means his cap hit alone could easily raise by $10M in that scenario. So that alone would take up 1/3 of the total increase.

Factor in the players you'd like to retain, namely Bozeman and others, and you can quickly spend most of the cap increase on just players already on your roster.

Absolutely agree. Since EDC has become GM, his contract structures have been much better than in the past, so I expect something like what you just explained. I believe in a bit of an increase, but the most level we can do the better off we will be in the future. That being said, I think it really depends on how much we can get done in the offseason, while paying him as much as possible in year one.

 

[RavensMania]

Never said it wasn't. I've just not heard anybody convince me that basically getting healthier players and adding a Tackle isn't the answer.
Bookmark this right now... if people think there's a massive overhaul in the Oline coming, you're past due to prepare yourself for disappointment.

The "upgrading" the Oline could, quite literally, be adding one player. That could legitimately be it. The rest is getting back injured players and forcing draft picks that we've made to simply play better. The FO is not going to throw in the towel on three different LGs just because the whole line isn't playing well.

If a massive overhaul on the OLine happens, it won't be by design. It'll be because Stanley can't come back, and/or because we weren't able or willing to pay Bozeman what the market wanted.

And I agree Lamar bails them out with his mobility also. To the point where it's partially assumed. You don't need to build a Tom Brady-like Oline to be stonewalls in pass protection because the QB can't move off a spot. That's not a good roster allocation to me.

agree and it's not like we can draft a bunch of lineman and expect them to start in year one and we certainly can't get 2 or 3 new starting lineman and expect us to afford to pay these salaries without creating voidable year contracts or backloading these deals, which will only hurt down the road.

 

[ndub]

Never said it wasn't. I've just not heard anybody convince me that basically getting healthier players and adding a Tackle isn't the answer.
Bookmark this right now... if people think there's a massive overhaul in the Oline coming, you're past due to prepare yourself for disappointment.

The "upgrading" the Oline could, quite literally, be adding one player. That could legitimately be it. The rest is getting back injured players and forcing draft picks that we've made to simply play better. The FO is not going to throw in the towel on three different LGs just because the whole line isn't playing well.

If a massive overhaul on the OLine happens, it won't be by design. It'll be because Stanley can't come back, and/or because we weren't able or willing to pay Bozeman what the market wanted.

And I agree Lamar bails them out with his mobility also. To the point where it's partially assumed. You don't need to build a Tom Brady-like Oline to be stonewalls in pass protection because the QB can't move off a spot. That's not a good roster allocation to me.

And bookmark this also right now... if we don't go out and improve this OL by bringing in several new pieces, we will be yet again be talking about how badly Lamar needs to be protected for the third straight year next year.

 

[rmcjacket23]

And bookmark this also right now... if we don't go out and improve this OL by bringing in several new pieces, we will be yet again be talking about how badly Lamar needs to be protected for the third straight year next year.

Who's getting replaced then and where are we getting them from? Are we ditching Zeitler, Bozeman and Stanley?
How do we know who's good when we haven't seen a lot of them play together?

 

[ndub]

Who's getting replaced then and where are we getting them from? Are we ditching Zeitler, Bozeman and Stanley?
How do we know who's good when we haven't seen a lot of them play together?

Stanley who knows, could either be completely done, or at least never be himself again. Bozeman may be gone completely because of price. RT definitely needs to be improved. I’m seeing at least a backup LT, C, and RT as needs, because even if Bozeman stays he’s better at LG

 

[Deebo813]

Who's getting replaced then and where are we getting them from? Are we ditching Zeitler, Bozeman and Stanley?
How do we know who's good when we haven't seen a lot of them play together?

We know Z is really decent though.. rest of them arent. You all say mekari is good, which he could be but when i watch games, dam near everyone is getting killed consistently.

 

[UPennChem]

Never said it wasn't. I've just not heard anybody convince me that basically getting healthier players and adding a Tackle isn't the answer.
Bookmark this right now... if people think there's a massive overhaul in the Oline coming, you're past due to prepare yourself for disappointment.

The "upgrading" the Oline could, quite literally, be adding one player. That could legitimately be it. The rest is getting back injured players and forcing draft picks that we've made to simply play better. The FO is not going to throw in the towel on three different LGs just because the whole line isn't playing well.

If a massive overhaul on the OLine happens, it won't be by design. It'll be because Stanley can't come back, and/or because we weren't able or willing to pay Bozeman what the market wanted.

And I agree Lamar bails them out with his mobility also. To the point where it's partially assumed. You don't need to build a Tom Brady-like Oline to be stonewalls in pass protection because the QB can't move off a spot. That's not a good roster allocation to me.

I think this is close to correct.

LT: Options are Stanley, James, AV, GA, Draft pick
Although there is a chance LT is not on the roster, I believe he is and his name is Stanley.

LG: Don't care. This guy is on the roster.

C: Options are Bozeman, Colon, FA, draft pick.
I believe there is a greater chance that this guy is not on the roster than LT, but I also believe he is on the roster and his name is Bozeman.

RG: Zeitler, unambiguous.

RT: Options are Mekari, James, Phillips, FA, draft pick.
I believe there is the greatest chance that this guy is not on the roster, but that if he is someone between Mekari or James will be good enough.

Interior depth: I think we have this pretty obviously.

Swing T: This guy is likely on the roster but he's probably not good and he's by himself. Someone needs to be added here.

If Stanley and James are healthy and play well you could potentially have a line of

Stanley, Clevland, Bozeman, Zeitler, and James with Mekari as your utility guy. This would basically be mean health dictates the line overwhelmingly.

This line could be quite strong.

If Stanley and James are either unhealthy or awful then you're looking at something like following unless you make a FA play or a high draft pick:

AV, Clevland, Bozeman, Zeitler, Mekari and someone like James as your swing T despite being bad.

This line is likely awful because if all 5 guys played all 17 games, you'd probably have a leaky left side but it wouldn't be the worst. However understanding there's no chance all 5 play all 17 games, the minute you lose a T, you're done for because you've got no one behind.

All this indicates to me and likely everyone else is that the interior is good enough and has appropriate depth. The T situation is pretty garbage and lacks depth. You need to find a way to 3 serviceable guys to play T next year. The key word is serviceable.

A healthy Stanley is serviceable.
A healthy James is serviceable.
A healthy Mekari is serviceable.
AV is just not. He'll likely be worse.

If you feel very confident in these guys' health you maybe only add one draft pick. If you don't feel so confident, you add 2 or 1 plus FA.

All I know is 1 serviceable T really should be brought in someway somehow next year.

 

[rossihunter2]

Stanley who knows, could either be completely done, or at least never be himself again. Bozeman may be gone completely because of price. RT definitely needs to be improved. I’m seeing at least a backup LT, C, and RT as needs, because even if Bozeman stays he’s better at LG

idk that i agree with that 100% - we've got 2 guys on the roster who can comfortably backup at C already with Colon and Mekari

for me we need to add a tackle from somewhere that we'd be fine with playing at some point in 2022 but we're not going to be drafting someone to be our franchise LT unless we know Ronnie's retiring (which seems unlikely)

 

[rossihunter2]

I think this is close to correct.

LT: Options are Stanley, James, AV, GA, Draft pick
Although there is a chance LT is not on the roster, I believe he is and his name is Stanley.

LG: Don't care. This guy is on the roster.

C: Options are Bozeman, Colon, FA, draft pick.
I believe there is a greater chance that this guy is not on the roster than LT, but I also believe he is on the roster and his name is Bozeman.

RG: Zeitler, unambiguous.

RT: Options are Mekari, James, Phillips, FA, draft pick.
I believe there is the greatest chance that this guy is not on the roster, but that if he is someone between Mekari or James will be good enough.

Interior depth: I think we have this pretty obviously.

Swing T: This guy is likely on the roster but he's probably not good and he's by himself. Someone needs to be added here.

If Stanley and James are healthy and play well you could potentially have a line of

Stanley, Clevland, Bozeman, Zeitler, and James with Mekari as your utility guy. This would basically be mean health dictates the line overwhelmingly.

This line could be quite strong.

If Stanley and James are either unhealthy or awful then you're looking at something like following unless you make a FA play or a high draft pick:

AV, Clevland, Bozeman, Zeitler, Mekari and someone like James as your swing T despite being bad.

This line is likely awful because if all 5 guys played all 17 games, you'd probably have a leaky left side but it wouldn't be the worst. However understanding there's no chance all 5 play all 17 games, the minute you lose a T, you're done for because you've got no one behind.

All this indicates to me and likely everyone else is that the interior is good enough and has appropriate depth. The T situation is pretty garbage and lacks depth. You need to find a way to 3 serviceable guys to play T next year. The key word is serviceable.

A healthy Stanley is serviceable.
A healthy James is serviceable.
A healthy Mekari is serviceable.
AV is just not. He'll likely be worse.

If you feel very confident in these guys' health you maybe only add one draft pick. If you don't feel so confident, you add 2 or 1 plus FA.

All I know is 1 serviceable T really should be brought in someway somehow next year.

i see this pretty similarly - we should be adding someone to the RT competition and if they don't win it then that's fine - it just means that mekari or james was better and the added benefit of adding a young guy to that mix is that they likely become the swing tackle if they dont win the role which allows mekari to be a 5 position backup

basically we need 4 tackles in 2022 and we know that 3 of them will hopefully be Stanley, James and Mekari

the C spot will be what it will be - either we can afford bozeman or we cant and if we cant we'll either move forwards with our backup or we'll find a new starter - Colon's been fine enough that he's not a liability

 

[rossihunter2]

We know Z is really decent though.. rest of them arent. You all say mekari is good, which he could be but when i watch games, dam near everyone is getting killed consistently.

mekari was doing pretty good until he got hurt - came back from the injury and took a game to get back into the swing of it and looked good against cleveland - then got injured again...

that right side of the line has been fine - not dominant but not a liability either

 

[UPennChem]

i see this pretty similarly - we should be adding someone to the RT competition and if they don't win it then that's fine - it just means that mekari or james was better and the added benefit of adding a young guy to that mix is that they likely become the swing tackle if they dont win the role which allows mekari to be a 5 position backup

basically we need 4 tackles in 2022 and we know that 3 of them will hopefully be Stanley, James and Mekari

the C spot will be what it will be - either we can afford bozeman or we cant and if we cant we'll either move forwards with our backup or we'll find a new starter - Colon's been fine enough that he's not a liability

I'm glad we agree! The whole situation becomes infinitely easier if Stanley and James are still able to be good players. Obviously if not both than hopefully one. If neither, we keep AV and Mekari and we need to find 2 more guys that are serviceable. Not sure what the FA T and draft T classes look like yet

 

[rmcjacket23]

Stanley who knows, could either be completely done, or at least never be himself again. Bozeman may be gone completely because of price. RT definitely needs to be improved. I’m seeing at least a backup LT, C, and RT as needs, because even if Bozeman stays he’s better at LG

1. I don't think Bozeman is better at Guard, I think it's just an easier position to play on this team. And I think if the FO thought he was better at Guard, they'd either move him back there, or not anointed him as the starting C before training camp even started, which is what they did.
2. Everybody agrees RT is a need. I'm just not convinced a starter is the answer.
3. Sure, you need a swing tackle. Swing tackles aren't going to be high round picks, and swing tackles look like Mekari, basically. So that's what we'd be targeting.

Also, that doesn't sound like an Oline overhaul to me. Like in your scenario, you're keeping at least three starters. Hell we had like four different starters just coming into this season.

We're not getting 3-4 new starters this offseason. There isn't the financial or draft resources to pull that off, unless you do nothing else but that, which doesn't make sense from a roster construction standpoint. At that point, anything less than like 30-35 points a game every week from Lamar would be unacceptable, because that's what it would take to keep up with a defense that won't have a Dline, won't have a pass rush, and will be getting older in the secondary.

 

[rmcjacket23]

We know Z is really decent though.. rest of them arent. You all say mekari is good, which he could be but when i watch games, dam near everyone is getting killed consistently.

Mekari is ideally a solid swing tackle.

I don't put a lot of stock into how certain fans views are determined from "watching games", mostly because a lot of fans don't know what they're looking at when they watch games. They think every sack, pressure, etc. has to be on the Oline. There's only a handful of people on this planet I know that actually take the time to watch film of Olineman. Meaning they don't even watch where the ball is or what anybody else is doing... just the lineman. I myself find that boring, which is why I lean on others to do it for me.

Your eyes can easily deceive you. Especially true when there's pre-conceived notions of what should happen or what you're expecting to happen.

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm glad we agree! The whole situation becomes infinitely easier if Stanley and James are still able to be good players. Obviously if not both than hopefully one. If neither, we keep AV and Mekari and we need to find 2 more guys that are serviceable. Not sure what the FA T and draft T classes look like yet

James coming back to practice with the team over the next few weeks is a real positive for his recovery for 2022
With Stanley we can only be in wait and see mode

 

[purplepittabread88]

I think I’d rather have Colon at center and 7 million + dollars than bozeman.
I’d rather spend money on dline than draft guys super early.

i think a game changing saftey is one of the biggest holdbacks to this team (lacking rn)
But it’s also somewhat of a luxury so.

 

[QuothTheRaven]

Your eyes can easily deceive you. Especially true when there's pre-conceived notions of what should happen or what you're expecting to happen.

Or you make your assessment based on big plays only, and throw out the 99% of unspectacular but far more instructive snaps. I feel like this is a common pitfall.

 

[RavensMania]

We know Z is really decent though.. rest of them arent. You all say mekari is good, which he could be but when i watch games, dam near everyone is getting killed consistently.

Mekari is good but he definitely has his length limitations.

 

[RavensMania]

I think I’d rather have Colon at center and 7 million + dollars than bozeman.
I’d rather spend money on dline than draft guys super early.

i think a game changing saftey is one of the biggest holdbacks to this team (lacking rn)
But it’s also somewhat of a luxury so.

and this is why we don't have a good line year in and year out. We can move Bozeman back to center, but he's been ok at center. Bozeman is the best center we have had here in a long time, well dating back to Ryan Jensen. I would hope we resign him and if he goes down we have a backup in Colon Castillo. We need some continuity and Zeitler has said he loves playing next to Bozeman for a reason.

 

[ravenslord]

and this is why we don't have a good line year in and year out. We can move Bozeman back to center, but he's been ok at center. Bozeman is the best center we have had here in a long time, well dating back to Ryan Jensen. I would hope we resign him and if he goes down we have a backup in Colon Castillo. We need some continuity and Zeitler has said he loves playing next to Bozeman for a reason.

Don't you think Bozeman is a better guard?

 

[rossihunter2]

Don't you think Bozeman is a better guard?

i dont think there's anything inherently better about bozeman at guard... i think he fits better at C and i think he's only played there for a year as a pro

i think he's been mostly very good and occasionally somewhat average at C whereas at G he was often above average but sometimes a liability (albeit less so as he got more and more time)...

his main value at G is as a puller but must be pointed out that part of the reason he was asked to pull so much is that he can't anchor a running game behind him and doesnt get a ton of push on drive blocks

my biggest concern at C is the lower snaps we've seen the last few weeks but that's fixable