He also didnt move up in pocket
-
Welcome to PurpleFlock! Sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.
Lamar Jackson
- Thread starter Ice Bowl
- Start date
that's related to the first 3 points - if he sees duv straight away he steps up
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
That's true and I honestly can't understand why.
You can count me in this boat.
That's not to absolve Lamar because Duvernay was wide open, but I didn't like that the one drive the Ravens finally get into the red zone, they don't take the points. I didn't trust the offense to score a touchdown and I saw too many opportunities where the play failed rather than worked.
Now, to be fair, I didn't have supreme confidence in the defense, but they were at least coming off a three and out.
And with three points, the Bills can't milk the clock and score a touchdown- it puts them into the position where they need to try to score a touchdown as soon as possible or settle for a FG and OT.
But, yes, Lamar made two mistakes on the play.
He missed a wide open Duvernay (and when I say wide open, I mean no one was even in the zip code) and he threw an interception, giving an additional 18 yards AND breathing room because the Bills were no longer in the endzone.
it's also a pointless discussion at this point
because harbs isnt gonna change - next time something like this happens, a bunch of people are gonna complain the exact same way they are this time, harbs will say the same stuff he said this time, and we'll do it all over again
im just bored of talking about these go/no-go decisions because to me it's a settled argument
yet some fans seem flabbergasted every single time and at this point it has to be wilful ignorance because it's not like the logic hasn't been explained many times and it's not like this could possibly be surprising given the frequency with which it happens
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
It's mostly because most fans take these decisions as situational, more than analytical or aggression based.
And a lot of fans are very "ancient" in how they look at football, so they believe in taking points vs maximizing opportunity to win.
Also a lot of people just don't like John and want to take the opportunity to bash him whenever they can get it.
i guess though i get frustrated by how right these people feel and how demonstratively shocked they are when this is all we've been doing in those situations for nearly half a decade at this point
it's not new yet people are up in arms every time
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
Facts
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
Also facts
As far as the go for it/don't go for it is concerned, I'm generally very in the go for it boat.
However, I do also believe the numbers can't account for the flow of the game, quality of opponent, and other real, live factors, so I do think that for me, it does break down into a case by case basis.
99% of the time, I'd say the scenario calls for going for it, but I'm not a blindly go for it guy.
However, I do also believe the numbers can't account for the flow of the game, quality of opponent, and other real, live factors, so I do think that for me, it does break down into a case by case basis.
99% of the time, I'd say the scenario calls for going for it, but I'm not a blindly go for it guy.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
At times you should take situations into account and the offense was shit at that point and again, had started on the one. That 4th down play was on the 3 or 4. We were moving backwards and had enough time to try and drive again if the Bills did score. In poker you almost always play pocket aces. In a multi way pot on the bubble you know what though... you might want to sit that one out.
Gotta play them pocket aces no matter what lol
My thought basically boils down to this-
If you score a touchdown, the Bills need a touchdown for OT. How confident am I in a touchdown? Not at all when you consider the Ravens last scored one in the first quarter and one was gift wrapped by great position on the interception return.
Additionally, if a touchdown is the only positive outcome, what are the negatives? An interception, obviously, is one. A fumble is a huge one. A sack is a huge one. An incompletion is probably the best failure the Ravens could have hoped for. I just see too many possible scenarios for what could go wrong, and obviously it did go wrong.
If you get a field goal, the Bills need a field goal for OT or a touchdown to win. Given the Ravens are up, the Bills can't afford to risk milking the clock and attempt to score a touchdown- they need to take touchdown opportunities when they present themselves and that potentially gives the Ravens back the ball. Or, the Bills milk the clock and settle for OT.
Do I trust the defense to make the stop? They haven't been great, but they did just for a three and out. I probably trust them more than I trust the anemic offense. And if the Ravens go up three, this impacts the Bills playcalling and gives the Ravens a little more freedom in play calling. They can afford to be a bit more aggressive and not have to worry that any mistake they make could signal game over.
That's what would have been running through my head, personally.
Tank
Hall of Famer
I think many don’t want to admit that Lamar in his 5th year has some flaws that haven’t improved/gone away yet. They say it has to be coaching, not the players not executing.
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
You dinosaur, you don’t understand inferential statistics.
<sarcasm>
But that condescending rebuttal is irritating when people get mad we lost yet another game because our 4th down play was executed terribly because the whole world knew it was going to Andrews and the line didn’t block it
This is where I'm at. Typically I'm team aggressive and like to go for it, but felt like this was one of the instances where you had to take the points. Just think the decisions Buffalo has to make down 3 change the perspective so drastically. Earlier in the game and I'm completely on board with the decision, but I just don't like passing up the lead entirely with such little time left. Maybe you still lose and it is what it is at that point, but just feel like they thought too much about the lack of trust in the D and not enough in the challenge you place on the Bills at that point. I'll always maintain that if you get to a point where you're trying to let a team score and they don't want to, you've made a bad decision.
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
The you lose to a flush
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
How many times do we have to fail on that logic to understand we can't force the probabilities? If nothing works for 3 quarters, why would that 4th down turn out like how we imagined?
We're giving ourselves no outs, shooting ourselves in the foot every time.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
Exactly. This is where I'm at. Agreed with most likely all of the recent calls. I'm all for the analytics but you also need to check the teams pulse. This specific situation I hated from the get go. Nothing results oriented. When the team was lining up to go for it I thought the move was dumb. You can say Lamar shouldn't have thrown the pick, which he shouldn't have but at the same time I'm not just throwing the ball away on 4th down.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Right, but that's a two way street. For the prior basically three quarters, our defense couldn't stop Buffalo from driving down the field and scoring either. So why would we think the next drive is going to be different?