ive seen lamar play 2x live in highschool. Watched most of his games in college. One thing i can say is that he has improved tremendously, however ive also seen him make some terrible ass throws that made me say “ dam he cant throw”. His accuracy was inconsistent in college and thats a fact
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Lamar Jackson
- Thread starter Ice Bowl
- Start date
RavenROC
Practice Squad
I understand your point but what I'm stuck on is Jackson isn't the starter in 2018. He may have a ton of experience in a pro system from his awesome head coach Bobby Petrino who ran a very complicated system that every Lamar Jackson defender wants to prop up etc......
But that isn't the system that the Ravens run now, and it isn't the system they're going to feature in week 1 when Joe is starting. They aren't going to feature designed runs and RPO hardly at all with Joe Flacco under center. It's not going to happen.
If I had to predict, I think training camp opens, everyone stays pretty high on Jackson while the coaches play with their new toys, they still have some leeway with gadget plays and tweaks, but when pre-season hits they'll be running the plays they expect to run in the regular season and people will be slightly underwhelmed with their use of Jackson who will be in the pocket more than people realize in Joe's offense.
The Ravens want to win this year and the best chance for that is Joe Flacco playing well, I don't believe they're going to change the offense a ton for 2018, which means they're going to change it more after the Ravens Flacco era is over.
but designed runs being part of the system doesnt actually change the system overall and we already were running some option stuff with flacco already last year
and they are going to change the offence because the offence wasnt effective until the end of last year - my hope is the offence does change because it should adapt to the new skillsets in the building - we have an entirely new skill position group it would be crazy to run the exact same offence
the only thing that will change with jackson is that we have an extra package or two that can be added to the system while remaining part of the overall schematic fit
you're right we won't see any of that in the preseason though because we wouldnt anyway because the preseason is all vanilla packages and not tipping your hand - i expect to see jackson run quite a bit in preseason because that's not going to be a surprise - and remember how much tyrod would run in preseason in the same scheme as joe too...
and i really dont know why seeing jackson in the pocket would be underwhelming - he processes the field very well and reads multiple levels of the defence and goes through progressions very quickly - his ball placement could be better and his overall accuracy on shorter throws and intermediate throws outside the numbers could be more consistent but these are documented issues that i think everyone on the board is aware of at this point
What scares me more than anything is his 13 wonderlic, I know tests don’t always define Intelligence but he knew it was coming and it is extremely difficult to score below a 20 really on it
I so badly want to see Lamar and Collins run some read options and kill defenses with their legs. Imagine how hard it would be stopping us from burning the clock... and with all our maulers on the OL plus the threat of the option the running game could put video games like numbers.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Best part is that we have a ton of 2 way TEs and if brown pans out we have 2 very good run blockers on the edge, and Jackson and Collins both dominate the edge with burst and the ability to get skinny through an alley. Our outside run game with those 2 should be absolutely dominant
This is correct
Exactly what I meant. In the option, the OT on the play side executes a down block, which basically says «bury the guy on your inside shoulder, then get to the second level». This also happens to be a staple of Roman's power scheme and Zeus' favourite block bar none. And we all know how devastating Collins is running outside the tackles. It's really a case of perfect fit between personnel and scheme.
RavenROC
Practice Squad
You're right, they were running it with Flacco, and we all saw how that turned out against Miami (/sarcasm); it's not that big of a part of the offense and it will be something they'll increase for Jackson. The more significant piece I was commenting is any amount of RPO, which they currently don't do any of, and they shouldn't until Jackson is the #1. Throwing that into an offense isn't nothing.
Eh, I think that's just an issue of perspective. Another could be that adding this talent will lead to success in the current system. I don't think you overhaul your offense just because of a couple new receivers, some of which will only be here for a year, or are draft picks. Crabtree is a professional, he'll learn the offense they put in front of him, same with the others, none of them are so dynamically different that you have to worry about scheme change.
I think you're underestimating the amount that everyone in offensive system will need to adapt to his style. Especially down to the linemen, every single one of them will need to keep the possibility that he'll break one off in the back of their mind.
Receivers? If plays break down they need to know what he's going to look to do in space to extend the play. Joe might run up and slide(hopefully) or roll out a bit, but Jackson takes it to another level and it will be a major adjustment.
I was just making a point of everyone putting so much emphasis on what he can do because they saw it in college, and it will die down once real games start because they'll be installing the offense Joe is expected to thrive in on Sundays. I wasn't trying to say any more than that, just the media's reaction and how it's then forcefed out to the fans.
RavenROC
Practice Squad
Not defending his score, but read one analysts thoughts on it and he was saying it's so low because he didn't use an agent who would have had him running practice tests non stop and prepping him.
It's still scary though lol
I guess all I’m saying is that I don’t think the offence we’ll install for flacco is going to vastly differ from the offence of the future for Jackson - we will have different emphases for different qbs skillsets but I’d sincerely doubt if the scheme itself is much different to the other - our tendencies will change with Jackson but I don’t think the scheme fit will change
What I hope happens is that we see more progressions (from both qbs) that run high to low rather on multiple levels because it’s something jackson did successfully in a complex offensive scheme (at times) in college and I think it’s something we haven’t seen enough success from with flacco the last 2 years
Inqui
Pro Bowler
Until the QB position involves working out how fast a northbound train can travel or which trapezoid comes next I'm not too worried.
Justdewinit20
Veteran
There really is no correlation between wonderlic scores and QB play. If you’re really that worried I can compute Pearsons R and show you that there isn’t a statistical significance. I don’t know why this is a big deal.
Militant X 1
Ravens Ring of Honor
I never bought a Flacco jersey but I can't wait to pick up and sport Lamar's jersey. Sweeeeet!
I guess our opinions differ but if you look at the scores it does matter to me. Obviously, I don't nitpick, but it seems to be 25 is a baseline. If you look at the modern evolution of defenses mental strength to make adjustments and reads matters more now than ever. It's a hard thing to find but from my limited research, no qb has won the Superbowl with a score lower than 20 dating back to Bradshaw. Although this is most likely just a coincidence, some of the most famous big game qbs who were never able to win it all had scores below 20. Jim Kelly, Marino and McNab interestingly enough. Lamar will surely be an above average regular season guy, but what scares me is when he declines athletics decline and he has to go play against Bill up in Fox. Of course, I hope he succeeds, and he surely will sell tickets, but he will really have to excel for me to love the pick.
@RavenROC not gonna quote cuz it's a lot but I agree about not being so in love with his package idea. It usually takes our offense a while to get started, and I fear that throwing a entirely new system for a few minutes might harm us more than hurt us. If Lamar does well, does he come out? Or does Flacco just ride the pine for every second half. In the NFL I am interested in if a dual package has ever worked. I know the late 80s eagles put Randall in on 3rd downs.
Sami84
Ravens Ring of Honor
Lamar doesn't strike me as a long term QB. He'll be a dangerous weapon for the next 4 years or so but unless he really improves beyond what is normally expected i just don't see a franchise QB but a deadly offensive weapon for certain schemes.
Been watching his tape and he's going to get hurt.
Nearly all of us before the draft were saying this and not wanting to draft him, of course when we draft someone the kool aid gets shared around but for me the two best QBs are Baker and Josh Rosen and it's not even close. Darnold is a bust in the making and the same with Allen and Jackson(as a QB). The only difference is that jackson can be the ultimate joker on offense and really mess teams up.
Been watching his tape and he's going to get hurt.
Nearly all of us before the draft were saying this and not wanting to draft him, of course when we draft someone the kool aid gets shared around but for me the two best QBs are Baker and Josh Rosen and it's not even close. Darnold is a bust in the making and the same with Allen and Jackson(as a QB). The only difference is that jackson can be the ultimate joker on offense and really mess teams up.
Reading the field is something jackson already does better and more regularly than all of the other top 5 qbs except Rosen - he was sometimes asked to read 5 different depths of route from high to low and throw a guy open and that’s a skill that will translate well into the pros
He needs to work on his touch and his short ball consistency but he throws with good anticipation, good reads and nice timing on a lot of his throws - and in most cases he has good ball placement (if not always perfect)
The biggest mental aspect of the offence he’ll have to pick up is the pre-snap reads but I think that’s fair enough to expect him to develop well because of how quickly he processes post-snap
It would be great if our starting qb could do or was good at all those things that way he could learn from him. Im hoping lamar is very competitive and is willing to get better, which so far it seems that way