Lamar Jackson

[Willbacker]

You're slitting your own throat much more deeply if you give up on a top QB for no reason.

Like I've said a few times, Lamar will get what he wants from some team, then Watson's deal will become the norm, Burrow, Hurts and Herbert will get similar and then all the Ravens fans who were railing against guarantees will pretend they never said anything.

Why do we needs outs anyway? Only a couple of big QB contracts in the last decade or so have really hurt the team that gave them out. Other positions have a much lower hit rate.

How did Seattle do? Who got the better out of that deal? No I dont want to guarantee Lamar a higher salary than Watson and put us in cap hell and tbh the Broncos are only in short term cap hell. Damn sure can't say that about the Browns. Did you even take the time and look at the link?

 

[Thezone27]

You're slitting your own throat much more deeply if you give up on a top QB for no reason.

Like I've said a few times, Lamar will get what he wants from some team, then Watson's deal will become the norm, Burrow, Hurts and Herbert will get similar and then all the Ravens fans who were railing against guarantees will pretend they never said anything.

Why do we needs outs anyway? Only a couple of big QB contracts in the last decade or so have really hurt the team that gave them out. Other positions have a much lower hit rate.

He is literally gonna lose all his athleticism in 4 years

 

[ravenslord]

5 potential landing spots for Lamar Jackson, ranked

Here’s where the Ravens QB could end up if he’s traded.

www.sbnation.com

Top landing spots for Lamar .

 

[rmcjacket23]

I never said Hurts needs to wait until after this season to sign. Why would he? He just needs to wait until after the draft, which is a big decision point for Lamar and the Ravens. Then he can show the Eagles whatever Lamar got (from the Ravens or, more likely, another team, sadly) as a starting point.

The same applies to Burrow and Herbert.

Right but I also don't think the Ravens are trading Lamar this year anyway, so I don't think them waiting really means much. Plus its like two months away, which isn't a long period of time.

Plus I'm not sure that Herbert or Hurts would necessarily match or exceed what Lamar gets to begin with.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

How did Seattle do? Who got the better out of that deal? No I dont want to guarantee Lamar a higher salary than Watson and put us in cap hell and tbh the Broncos are only in short term cap hell. Damn sure can't say that about the Browns. Did you even take the time and look at the link?

Seattle are a great example that, if you have a QB who was top 10, some team is always going to think they can make it work. Seattle got 2 firsts, 2 seconds and players for a declining QB. Philly got a 1st and a 3rd for Wentz, who was awful.

The Browns aren't in 'cap hell' - they're only slightly over the cap for the next 2 seasons. They've got a big QB contract to work around because that's what they chose to do. If Rapey Watson returns to the player he was, I don't think they'll regret the football side of the deal. The moral side is a different story.

They've got a QB under contract for $46 M - that's not a disaster. In fact, if the Ravens lose Lamar, chances are Cleveland will have a better next 5 years than us.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You're slitting your own throat much more deeply if you give up on a top QB for no reason.

Like I've said a few times, Lamar will get what he wants from some team, then Watson's deal will become the norm, Burrow, Hurts and Herbert will get similar and then all the Ravens fans who were railing against guarantees will pretend they never said anything.

Why do we needs outs anyway? Only a couple of big QB contracts in the last decade or so have really hurt the team that gave them out. Other positions have a much lower hit rate.

OK. And I think the second paragraph is what's literally not going to happen.

The Owner wants "outs" because he doesn't want to pay $ to people that aren't performing. You're looking at it purely from a cap or fan perspective, which is probably the absolute wrong way to look at a situation like this.

As you've already said, you don't think being able to have an "out" for one year is significant. I feel very confidently that the person writing the checks may have a completely different view point on that. Not even Billionaires are that cavalier with $50M. Its easy for fans to be, because fans are just spending somebody else's $.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

Right but I also don't think the Ravens are trading Lamar this year anyway, so I don't think them waiting really means much. Plus its like two months away, which isn't a long period of time.

Plus I'm not sure that Herbert or Hurts would necessarily match or exceed what Lamar gets to begin with.

Maybe not Herbert, but Hurts and Burrow have been to a Super Bowl. If they wait until after Lamar, they could very reasonably make his deal the starting point.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Maybe not Herbert, but Hurts and Burrow have been to a Super Bowl. If they wait until after Lamar, they could very reasonably make his deal the starting point.

Burrow yes, I think he'll be the highest paid QB in the league no matter when he signed.
Hurts sure, but Lamar also has an MVP. I'd view them comparable, but I think Hurts signs first anyway, so it'll probably be a moot point.

 

[Willbacker]

Seattle are a great example that, if you have a QB who was top 10, some team is always going to think they can make it work. Seattle got 2 firsts, 2 seconds and players for a declining QB. Philly got a 1st and a 3rd for Wentz, who was awful.

The Browns aren't in 'cap hell' - they're only slightly over the cap for the next 2 seasons. They've got a big QB contract to work around because that's what they chose to do. If Rapey Watson returns to the player he was, I don't think they'll regret the football side of the deal. The moral side is a different story.

They've got a QB under contract for $46 M - that's not a disaster. In fact, if the Ravens lose Lamar, chances are Cleveland will have a better next 5 years than us.

The cap hit is 54 mil tho and they are 13 mil as it stands now over the cap. That is not slightly. And when you're over the cap 2 yrs from now............come on.

As for the compensation.......yeah but you say we'll be doormats if we trade. Seahawks made it to the playoffs and have 2 1st rd picks this year. They sure toppled off the mountain lol. We have Monken who won 2 FBS championships with Stetson Bennett as his QB. Don't get me wrong I'd like Lamar signed but not w/o outs(injuries last 2 yrs) but I have no problem taking the picks.

 

[Willbacker]

Burrow yes, I think he'll be the highest paid QB in the league no matter when he signed.
Hurts sure, but Lamar also has an MVP. I'd view them comparable, but I think Hurts signs first anyway, so it'll probably be a moot point.

Yeah can't wait to see Mike Brown digging in his pockets lol.

 

[rmcjacket23]

The cap hit is 54 mil tho and they are 13 mil as it stands now over the cap. That is not slightly. And when you're over the cap 2 yrs from now............come on.

As for the compensation.......yeah but you say we'll be doormats if we trade. Seahawks made it to the playoffs and have 2 1st rd picks this year. They sure toppled off the mountain lol. We have Monken who won 2 FBS championships with Stetson Bennett as his QB. Don't get me wrong I'd like Lamar signed but not w/o outs(injuries last 2 yrs) but I have no problem taking the picks.

As far as the Browns go, they'll likely keep deferring. If he starts to perform well, he'll get another extension in 2-3 years, so they'll just spread the cap hit out more. If he sucks, they'll just probably wait until year 4-5 of the deal and start taking the hits. Suck for a year or two, then move on.

The latter is the real downside of the contract. If he sucks, there's nothing you can do about it. Just gotta eat the dead money and suck for a few years. Becomes more than just a one year problem, of course.

 

[Thezone27]

Right but I also don't think the Ravens are trading Lamar this year anyway, so I don't think them waiting really means much. Plus its like two months away, which isn't a long period of time.

Plus I'm not sure that Herbert or Hurts would necessarily match or exceed what Lamar gets to begin with.

Herbert should get more

 

[QtR Nevermore]

OK. And I think the second paragraph is what's literally not going to happen.

The Owner wants "outs" because he doesn't want to pay $ to people that aren't performing. You're looking at it purely from a cap or fan perspective, which is probably the absolute wrong way to look at a situation like this.

As you've already said, you don't think being able to have an "out" for one year is significant. I feel very confidently that the person writing the checks may have a completely different view point on that. Not even Billionaires are that cavalier with $50M. Its easy for fans to be, because fans are just spending somebody else's $.

Of course the owner wants 'outs' but very rarely is it going to be as clear cut as that.

The chances are that Lamar's performance won't decline so much that the Ravens simply want to cut him anyway, except for injury. Even then, most teams are going to give their star QB time to recover in the hope that they return to form. Meanwhile, more of any contract becomes guaranteed with each year that passes.

More often, when a franchise QB declines, we see them traded to a QB hungry team, hoping they can revive his career. Guarantees wouldn't prevent that.

So we're really talking about a severe injury that happens early enough for Lamar to recover and for the Ravens (and every other team) to see that he has definitely lost it as a player, before the team gets any real advantage from the ability to simply cut him. That's a narrow window.

So narrow, that it's clear to me that the Ravens/Bisciotti are against guarantees because of the precedent, not for football reasons. So why are Ravens fans opposed to guarantees? Fucked if I know.

 

[Thezone27]

The cap hit is 54 mil tho and they are 13 mil as it stands now over the cap. That is not slightly. And when you're over the cap 2 yrs from now............come on.

As for the compensation.......yeah but you say we'll be doormats if we trade. Seahawks made it to the playoffs and have 2 1st rd picks this year. They sure toppled off the mountain lol. We have Monken who won 2 FBS championships with Stetson Bennett as his QB. Don't get me wrong I'd like Lamar signed but not w/o outs(injuries last 2 yrs) but I have no problem taking the picks.

only 46 is guaranteed, no?

 

[gtalk12]

I just knew all this was going to be a very big issue when Watson got signed and our owner went out there and made the comments he did about the contract.

The idea that Watsons contract was an "outlier" was always incorrect. Steve B knew the moment the Clowns signed that guy that things would change.

No matter what side of the coin you are on, I's obvious that Lamar has done more than Watson.

 

[Willbacker]

As far as the Browns go, they'll likely keep deferring. If he starts to perform well, he'll get another extension in 2-3 years, so they'll just spread the cap hit out more. If he sucks, they'll just probably wait until year 4-5 of the deal and start taking the hits. Suck for a year or two, then move on.

The latter is the real downside of the contract. If he sucks, there's nothing you can do about it. Just gotta eat the dead money and suck for a few years. Becomes more than just a one year problem, of course.

I'm not sure of the legalities of just simply deferring unless you're talking about non guaranteed extensions and tacking money on. And as a fan and a fan only I don't want somebody thats not on the team no more sucking up 20-25% of cap. And iuf they did just release they did it cuz they was sucking in the 1st place.

 

[Willbacker]

only 46 is guaranteed, no?

The Browns had a lower cap hit last year to make the deal affordable now they paying the piper. The bottomline is he counts 54 mil against the cap the next 4 yrs.

 

[Willbacker]

I just knew all this was going to be a very big issue when Watson got signed and our owner went out there and made the comments he did about the contract.

The idea that Watsons contract was an "outlier" was always incorrect. Steve B knew the moment the Clowns signed that guy that things would change.

No matter what side of the coin you are on, I's obvious that Lamar has done more than Watson.

Yep the Brownstains created a clusterfuck.

 

[gtalk12]

Yep the Brownstains created a clusterfuck.

It will kill me if Lamar leaves and we run into Watson for the next few years and he is playing up to par smh

 

[QtR Nevermore]

The cap hit is 54 mil tho and they are 13 mil as it stands now over the cap. That is not slightly. And when you're over the cap 2 yrs from now............come on.

As for the compensation.......yeah but you say we'll be doormats if we trade. Seahawks made it to the playoffs and have 2 1st rd picks this year. They sure toppled off the mountain lol. We have Monken who won 2 FBS championships with Stetson Bennett as his QB. Don't get me wrong I'd like Lamar signed but not w/o outs(injuries last 2 yrs) but I have no problem taking the picks.

$13M over the cap is just a few cuts and restructures for an NFL team. It's nobody's disaster.

The Seahawks were able to trade a declining QB in his 30s for a haul. We could do the same if Lamar declined.

Fans view the picks we'd get for Lamar in a vaccuum but we should also consider how many of those picks we'll need to burn to find a QB, either in a trade, or by trading up, with no guarantee that we'll find a good one - meaning there's a good chance we'd need to go back to the draft or trade market again.
We could end up burning through the equivalent of all those picks and still be without an answer at QB.