Next Up: Broncos

[ravenslord]

Boyle's snaps may have increased, but Likely was also inactive.

Boyle will be released before the season is over imo.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Boyle will be released before the season is over imo.

Cap-wise, its really not an option.

 

[ravenslord]

Cap-wise, its really not an option.

Ok I see. So they put him on inactive list?

 

[Dom McRaven]

You just know the Front Office is going to send Roman packing after this season, even if he doesn't get the Stanford job.

It does appear he's likely to get it though.

Yep. It's not the only fix though as we're gonna have to draft a WR or two. FA will be more of the same but like I mentioned before, Lamar and Roquan extension first.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Ok I see. So they put him on inactive list?

Maybe, but they haven't yet. His comp for 2022 is effectively guaranteed and he already took a bit of a pay cut coming into the season.

If they really think Kolar has something to offer and want him to play, then yes, I think they'll make Boyle a healthy scratch. But I think they're partially content with redshirting Kolar for most of the year unless one of the other TEs gets injured.

 

[rossihunter2]

Boyle's snaps on offense are slowly increasing. Still not high, but he played 10 snaps last week.

Again, I think the PS call ups at linebacker are for ST contributions. You've got a four man rotation at OLB already that's been pretty effective, so its hard to justify sacrificing ST players just to add a fifth pass rusher who won't likely play high volume.

i think boyle's snaps last week are likely related to Likely's lack of availability rather than anything performance based

 

[UPennChem]

Well, i'll say this... I think the coaching staffs perception of Oweh is wildly, wildly, wildly different than the fan bases. Oweh was among the league leaders in pressures as recent as like a month ago. I think fans just look at the sack numbers and be like "yeah, he sucks". I don't think the FO or coaching staff agrees at all, and I think there's a near 0% chance they'd make Oweh a healthy scratch just to play Ojabo. I think they'd need to see a full offseason of football between both of them to even come close to making that conclusion.

Frankly, I like the way JPP has been playing of late, but I think its significantly more likely they send him to the bench than Oweh, and I don't think either is going to happen.

Hamilton coming back will help, because he plays a decent # of ST snaps (though I wonder how long that will continue), and so you may need one less LB or ST-only contributor out there.

Do you think its not coincidental that that stat for Oweh has dropped considerably as his number of snaps has dropped? No I don't just look at the sack numbers and make a naïve statement about him. Oweh was the beneficiary of pressures coming from extreme numbers of snaps early season. He was never able to make anything out of those pressures. During the time he was getting those, we were letting Tua and Josh Allen rip us up in 4th quarters. Additionally, Oweh wasn't playing the run earlier in the season as he is now. Throw in some inexcusable penalties and its not a good look.

At his best this season playing a reasonable number of snaps, Oweh sets the edge at a competent NFL level, gets very little pressure, and has basically no splash plays of just any kind (TFL, sack, FF, INT, blocked pass, anything) to make up for it. He is truly the definition of a completely replaceable player. If he wasn't a 1st round pick, no one would have even the slightest issue benching him.

Also to be clear, I am not suggesting we bench him. I've only advocated that we actually look and see what we have in Ojabo because there is a small albeit non-zero chance that Ojabo could be everything that people thought he'd be predraft and therefore could be a better player than Oweh right now.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Do you think its not coincidental that that stat for Oweh has dropped considerably as his number of snaps has dropped? No I don't just look at the sack numbers and make a naïve statement about him. Oweh was the beneficiary of pressures coming from extreme numbers of snaps early season. He was never able to make anything out of those pressures. During the time he was getting those, we were letting Tua and Josh Allen rip us up in 4th quarters. Additionally, Oweh wasn't playing the run earlier in the season as he is now. Throw in some inexcusable penalties and its not a good look.

At his best this season playing a reasonable number of snaps, Oweh sets the edge at a competent NFL level, gets very little pressure, and has basically no splash plays of just any kind (TFL, sack, FF, INT, blocked pass, anything) to make up for it. He is truly the definition of a completely replaceable player. If he wasn't a 1st round pick, no one would have even the slightest issue benching him.

Also to be clear, I am not suggesting we bench him. I've only advocated that we actually look and see what we have in Ojabo because there is a small albeit non-zero chance that Ojabo could be everything that people thought he'd be predraft and therefore could be a better player than Oweh right now.

OK, but why don't you just measure those pressures on a % of snap basis then? He's still fairly high. Not like world-beating high, but certainly nowhere close to inactive-levels.
Like two weeks ago, against Carolina, he had 5 pressures on 14 pass-play snaps. That's a high %.

I'm not worried about what we see from Ojabo. Him playing very little this year was always the likely outcome. He's a rookie. Next year, guys like JPP and Houston aren't even likely to be back necessarily, so there won't be guys ahead of him for playing time necessarily.

Hopefully he gets into the rotation soon. But guys like Oweh are playing 20-25 snaps, so I wouldn't expect Ojabo to play significantly more.

 

[UPennChem]

OK, but why don't you just measure those pressures on a % of snap basis then? He's still fairly high. Not like world-beating high, but certainly nowhere close to inactive-levels.
Like two weeks ago, against Carolina, he had 5 pressures on 14 pass-play snaps. That's a high %.

I'm not worried about what we see from Ojabo. Him playing very little this year was always the likely outcome. He's a rookie. Next year, guys like JPP and Houston aren't even likely to be back necessarily, so there won't be guys ahead of him for playing time necessarily.

Hopefully he gets into the rotation soon. But guys like Oweh are playing 20-25 snaps, so I wouldn't expect Ojabo to play significantly more.

Also though I watch Oweh constantly. I can't even remember his last pressure that was actually meaningful. Meaning he was actually close to the QB or PHYSICALLY altered a throw. Like at best Oweh makes the QB move up in the pocket and MAYBE makes the throw come out slightly faster.

Legitimately every other pass rusher makes more plays him on this team. Even Marlon and Hamilton make more splash plays than him. Since Roquan has been on the team, he's made more timely TFLs.

At some point Oweh has to do something that is meaningful.

 

[ravenslord]

Also though I watch Oweh constantly. I can't even remember his last pressure that was actually meaningful. Meaning he was actually close to the QB or PHYSICALLY altered a throw. Like at best Oweh makes the QB move up in the pocket and MAYBE makes the throw come out slightly faster.

Legitimately every other pass rusher makes more plays him on this team. Even Marlon and Hamilton make more splash plays than him. Since Roquan has been on the team, he's made more timely TFLs.

At some point Oweh has to do something that is meaningful.

Well i'm pretty concerned about Oweh. There's usually improvement in your second year but he has done nothing. I won't call him a bust yet
because he has immense physical skills but if this happens again next year , well he's a bust.

 

[UPennChem]

Well i'm pretty concerned about Oweh. There's usually improvement in your second year but he has done nothing. I won't call him a bust yet
because he has immense physical skills but if this happens again next year , well he's a bust.

Thank you for chiming in. Its crazy to me that Oweh is being defended by literally anyone. He's played awful as a pass rusher and competent vs the run. Has no splash plays or even timely stops on semi routine plays to help the D get off the field. He's just a body out there.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Also though I watch Oweh constantly. I can't even remember his last pressure that was actually meaningful. Meaning he was actually close to the QB or PHYSICALLY altered a throw. Like at best Oweh makes the QB move up in the pocket and MAYBE makes the throw come out slightly faster.

Legitimately every other pass rusher makes more plays him on this team. Even Marlon and Hamilton make more splash plays than him. Since Roquan has been on the team, he's made more timely TFLs.

At some point Oweh has to do something that is meaningful.

OK, but I guess if he's forcing the ball to come out faster, isn't that meaningful? Like if he throws off the timing of the route and the throw, that's, to me, meaningful. May force an incompletion or even a turnover.

I, like everybody else, would like more sacks, and I'd also like him to play better than some of his teammates. And I think they'll eventually get there.

I'm certainly going nowhere near the "bust" label others have, because "busts" to me are players that are either liabilities out there (which nobody would argue Oweh is) or players that are injured or hurt so frequently that they literally are never on the field. Guys like Perriman and Elam are busts to me. Oweh isn't. May not be living up to the expectations of what some expected out of a late first rounder so far, but that doesn't make him a bust.

Also not totally unconvinced that the expectation of some of you for a first round pass rusher wasn't Suggs-level, which is I think is egregiously unreasonable.

 

[UPennChem]

OK, but I guess if he's forcing the ball to come out faster, isn't that meaningful? Like if he throws off the timing of the route and the throw, that's, to me, meaningful. May force an incompletion or even a turnover.

I, like everybody else, would like more sacks, and I'd also like him to play better than some of his teammates. And I think they'll eventually get there.

I'm certainly going nowhere near the "bust" label others have, because "busts" to me are players that are either liabilities out there (which nobody would argue Oweh is) or players that are injured or hurt so frequently that they literally are never on the field. Guys like Perriman and Elam are busts to me. Oweh isn't. May not be living up to the expectations of what some expected out of a late first rounder so far, but that doesn't make him a bust.

Also not totally unconvinced that the expectation of some of you for a first round pass rusher wasn't Suggs-level, which is I think is egregiously unreasonable.

Except that's the thing. I cannot promise that this is exactly accurate because its not like I've watched all of the all 22's and specifically annotated these results. However, to my eye I have not seen that speed up end up being meaningful in the way that we did see it last year. Like I can recall I believe three situations where an Oweh pressure led to an INT. I can also remember Oweh pressures leading to others getting FFs. I cant really remember actually any of those this year. The Bills game was his only game with a splash play but it was also filled with him getting dusted and not making CRITICAL tackles.

And also no, not everyone is an idiot who expects every first rounder to be Suggs. Also I have not called him a bust because I agree with your definition of a bust entirely. His season last year showed flashes. This season has been a big regression in him really impacting plays stat sheet or not. Unless something changes, Oweh likely ends up with 2 sacks for the season with 1FF, around 40 tackles, 6 TFLs, and 0 passes defended after playing a ton of snaps. That is not even close to what you want to see from your 1st round pass rusher in year 2 (who is in a better defense than last year after having a considerably better showing last year).

 

[rossihunter2]

Except that's the thing. I cannot promise that this is exactly accurate because its not like I've watched all of the all 22's and specifically annotated these results. However, to my eye I have not seen that speed up end up being meaningful in the way that we did see it last year. Like I can recall I believe three situations where an Oweh pressure led to an INT. I can also remember Oweh pressures leading to others getting FFs. I cant really remember actually any of those this year. The Bills game was his only game with a splash play but it was also filled with him getting dusted and not making CRITICAL tackles.

And also no, not everyone is an idiot who expects every first rounder to be Suggs. Also I have not called him a bust because I agree with your definition of a bust entirely. His season last year showed flashes. This season has been a big regression in him really impacting plays stat sheet or not. Unless something changes, Oweh likely ends up with 2 sacks for the season with 1FF, around 40 tackles, 6 TFLs, and 0 passes defended after playing a ton of snaps. That is not even close to what you want to see from your 1st round pass rusher in year 2 (who is in a better defense than last year after having a considerably better showing last year).

not going to pretend he's been dominating or anything like that - but he's not been awful - and in fact against the Jags (especially late) was winning a fair amount and the ball was just coming out quickly

like Tyus Bowser gets a sack against the jags because Justin Houston forced a quick pressure and forced TLaw out of the pocket but that counts as a "splash" play for Tyus despite running the long way all the way around the arc

it's definitely disappointing that he hasnt become the dominant guy we hoped he might be in year 2 - but he's a cemented starter on a good unit who, despite 1 poor rep against the Jags, has generally been a pretty dominant run defender - obviously that's not what you're hoping for from a late 1st round pick but there's a reason a guy with those traits was a late 1st round pick and not a top 5 pick

i was super excited by his offseason because you got the sense that it had "clicked" but i think what we're seeing is that OTs get paid too, and it's really tough to beat good OTs if you're not elite as a pass rusher

 

[UPennChem]

not going to pretend he's been dominating or anything like that - but he's not been awful - and in fact against the Jags (especially late) was winning a fair amount and the ball was just coming out quickly

like Tyus Bowser gets a sack against the jags because Justin Houston forced a quick pressure and forced TLaw out of the pocket but that counts as a "splash" play for Tyus despite running the long way all the way around the arc

it's definitely disappointing that he hasnt become the dominant guy we hoped he might be in year 2 - but he's a cemented starter on a good unit who, despite 1 poor rep against the Jags, has generally been a pretty dominant run defender - obviously that's not what you're hoping for from a late 1st round pick but there's a reason a guy with those traits was a late 1st round pick and not a top 5 pick

i was super excited by his offseason because you got the sense that it had "clicked" but i think what we're seeing is that OTs get paid too, and it's really tough to beat good OTs if you're not elite as a pass rusher

I don't disagree with any of this. The conclusion is simply he's after the first few weeks cemented himself as an edge setter, but has regressed in his ability to make splash plays or even plays that are significantly impacting the QB compared to last year. He's no bust, but he's nowhere close to where you'd want him to be. That's why he's 2022's most frustrating player and I don't think its close.

 

[Deebo813]

Do you think its not coincidental that that stat for Oweh has dropped considerably as his number of snaps has dropped? No I don't just look at the sack numbers and make a naïve statement about him. Oweh was the beneficiary of pressures coming from extreme numbers of snaps early season. He was never able to make anything out of those pressures. During the time he was getting those, we were letting Tua and Josh Allen rip us up in 4th quarters. Additionally, Oweh wasn't playing the run earlier in the season as he is now. Throw in some inexcusable penalties and its not a good look.

At his best this season playing a reasonable number of snaps, Oweh sets the edge at a competent NFL level, gets very little pressure, and has basically no splash plays of just any kind (TFL, sack, FF, INT, blocked pass, anything) to make up for it. He is truly the definition of a completely replaceable player. If he wasn't a 1st round pick, no one would have even the slightest issue benching him.

Also to be clear, I am not suggesting we bench him. I've only advocated that we actually look and see what we have in Ojabo because there is a small albeit non-zero chance that Ojabo could be everything that people thought he'd be predraft and therefore could be a better player than Oweh right now.

Everything you said here is accurate.. also, people see the “ pressure” stat and think the guy is doing something.. pressure shit dnt mean anything unless youre causing the qb to fk up the play and oweh isnt doing that. We had yannick and all he had was hype from “ pressures” and that mf wasnt worth a dam.

 

[ravenslord]

Per article Ravens desperately need to get Lamar better weapons :

Texans' current product is unwatchable, Ravens need to help Lamar Jackson, and call a damn timeout, Jeff Saturday

In this week's Four Verts, Charles McDonald ponders the mess in Houston, the blunders in Indianapolis, the mismanagement in Baltimore, and the guts in Los Angeles and Jacksonville.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Deebo813]

Thank you for chiming in. Its crazy to me that Oweh is being defended by literally anyone. He's played awful as a pass rusher and competent vs the run. Has no splash plays or even timely stops on semi routine plays to help the D get off the field. He's just a body out there.

Every raven get defended. Dnt matter how terrible theyre playing. Sometimes you need those who see the good in players cause if not, you get stuck with mfs like me thats gonna call you trash after 3 games of consistent shit playing

 

[rossihunter2]

I don't disagree with any of this. The conclusion is simply he's after the first few weeks cemented himself as an edge setter, but has regressed in his ability to make splash plays or even plays that are significantly impacting the QB compared to last year. He's no bust, but he's nowhere close to where you'd want him to be. That's why he's 2022's most frustrating player and I don't think its close.

I don’t think he’s regressed - think we were limited by personnel early in the year which meant he got focused with double and triple teams when in year 1 he was getting more single teams

And then as other guys have returned - other guys are getting to the qb quicker

I’d say it’s more a lack of development than a regression

But these kind of year 2 “slumps” are incredibly common… remember what everyone thought of PQ in year 2 for example

 

[SepticeyePoe]

Per article Ravens desperately need to get Lamar better weapons :

Texans' current product is unwatchable, Ravens need to help Lamar Jackson, and call a damn timeout, Jeff Saturday

In this week's Four Verts, Charles McDonald ponders the mess in Houston, the blunders in Indianapolis, the mismanagement in Baltimore, and the guts in Los Angeles and Jacksonville.

sports.yahoo.com

Oh wow, I had no idea