I could see Broderick Washington getting an extension more than JK or PQ, because I think it will cost too much to extend PQ and JK seems to be unreasonable.
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The 2023 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter rossihunter2
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rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I could be wrong, but I don't think we're giving out any extensions at this point. Washington, to me, feels like the perfect "let him hit FA and test the market" type player. I think we'd like to retain, but I have no idea what a good price for him is. Brandon Williams got $10.5M a year like six years ago. So I would think you'd need to go to at least that in order to get him to avoid FA.
The only guy I possibly see getting a LT deal done mid-season is Odell, and that's if he's performing well. I think pretty much everybody else is heading for the FA market next year and then we'll see what that looks like when it happens.
Agree and I don't see Washington getting a Williams type deal at all. I feel it will be in the 5m range and yes could hit free agency first. I believe Brandon Williams deal was 2017, to be exact.
You open up a really slippery legal slope if you go that route. I understand the sentiment but the NFL does not need a team saying a guy isn’t hurt when he actually is and then he goes out and gets really hurt.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I mean they kind of already do go that route though. Like if a doctor is saying you're healthy enough to play, and you claim not to be, why is your word as the player better than that of a doctor? I think you should be allowed to seek additional opinions, since individual doctor's aren't gospel, but I don't think the argument is "I know more about my body", because most people don't know dick about their own bodies or even care about their own bodies.
Teams have done this before. They've suspended players who refused to play despite physicians saying they could. It's not unprecedented at all. PUP is just a preseason loophole.
Maybe teams don't care enough about preseason to warrant throwing a stink about it, and that's fair. Because in the end, a guy who sits most of the preseason will be a) healthier and b) also lose valuable game prep time, which will likely impact his on-field performance anyway.
That's why these "hold ins" never last into the season. Because the second the season starts, the team will just activate him off PUP and start suspending him and costing him weekly game checks for every week he chooses not to participate.
There is also a secondary slippery slope the Colts were talking about when the back story thing was getting hot, and its a road 31 other teams probably do not want to go down. The idea being that if his back was hurt, or if his leg still is, it was almost certainly hurt while training for football. If they are going to say that if you get hurt working out, preparing for the season, then they will put you on NFI and not pay you, that is a recipe for not having players be in good shape going into training camp because they cannot work out properly.
Nobody is going to want to go down that route. No team wants to discourage its players from being in as good of shape as they possibly can be during the offseason.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
NFI is designated for injuries that occur outside of normal practice facilities or training protocols. If you're doing football training with non-sanctioned team officials, they don't have to pay you. They will, but they don't have to.
This particular situation is just posturing. If Taylor wants to avoid getting fined for not participating, then he has to at least fake an injury. If he didn't report the injury to the team in the normal course of training at the facility, then by definition, the injury happened when he wasn't partaking in the teams offseason training program, or at the very least, he failed to disclose it.
Teams have offseason programs for training. They want you to follow that plan. If you get hurt doing it, they'll pay you. If you don't, its up to their discretion. And if you're going to come to camp and say "I got hurt, I can't play", when you said nothing previously about it, then they're going to say "OK, I'm not paying you then".
It's a two-sided coin.
They don’t JUST want you to do offseason training during the OTAs though. However if they were to take that stance, then that is what would end up happening.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
OK but OTAs aren't the only offseason training program. The Ravens, like most teams, have an extensive and comprehensive offseason training program. It officially started on April 17th. So you an official training program that commences, and pretty much continues, for almost five months until the start of the season.
Basically the only training that is done by players that would theoretically be outside the offseason program would occur from February through mid-April.
Does that mean every player follows the offseason program to a T? Of course not. Plenty of players train with private trainers and probably do their own workouts. They also would use private trainers to achieve the offseason program metrics, since in a lot of cases, they're not allowed to work with coaches during certain periods of the offseason.
But again, this is kind of moot. I'm in agreement that if I get injured catching routes from Lamar in Florida in March, the team is unlikely to try to not pay me. They WILL, however, try not to pay me if I get injured catching passes from Lamar in March, don't tell the team I got injured until training camp, and then decide I don't want to participate in camp because I have an injury that's 4-5 months old that I didn't report AND conveniently comes at a time where I'm publicly bitching about my contract.
It makes perfect sense for a team to threaten comp withholding at that point.
The strength and conditioning then only lasts 2 weeks.
Basically between January and July, so about 6 months, you have 2 weeks of conditioning, 10 OTAs, and 3 day mandatory minicamp. If that is all the workouts you do in the offseason then you are not in shape, let alone football shape.
The Pandora’s box that the Colts were threatening to open was if he hurt himself working out on his own, which as shown above you need to if you want to be in shape, then the team could withhold your pay. That is not a road they, or any team wants to go down.
There is a reason that Irsay is wildly considered an incompetent moron who if he had inherited the team would be failing In middle management somewhere, and it’s again on display here.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Right but I think they'll gladly open that box IF you're just claiming to be hurt and not actually hurt. If you don't want the box to be opened... either get a real injury, or participate at camp.
As I said before, ultimately I don't think the team cares enough about this to do anything, because the player not participating in OTAs or even training camp isn't so horrid for the teams in-season prospects that they need to take drastic steps on it. But I can 100% see why Ownership would take a public shot like this. It's basically saying to players that if they think the new norm for everybody who wants a new contract is to fake an injury and not participate in camp, we do have leverage to make that more problematic.
And as I said earlier, the other obvious way that Owners can end most of this is to basically make the PUP list a doctor decision, not a player decision.
If doctor's clear you, and you say you can't practice, they'll put you on the NFI list. And it'll be up to the discretion of the team to see what happens next.
OURavensFan
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That’s just to not tip the opponents off. Idk, the Lamar stuff was weird tho
OURavensFan
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Pads haven’t even come on yet, but yea let’s hope so
OURavensFan
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OSU entitlement
gtalk12
Ravens Ring of Honor
I think his frustration really started to leak out after than Ravens/Bengals game where he did not get the ball in the redzone.
It's a combination of not feeling valued as a player, where he feels he is clearly the best threat on offense (he was) and at the same time getting paid pennies for a guy who when on the field clearly looks better than most in the league.
However, his injuries have stopped him from stringing along some years. He is in a shitty situation with his window closing
It's a combination of not feeling valued as a player, where he feels he is clearly the best threat on offense (he was) and at the same time getting paid pennies for a guy who when on the field clearly looks better than most in the league.
However, his injuries have stopped him from stringing along some years. He is in a shitty situation with his window closing
Tank
Hall of Famer
Do you really think JK has shown he is better than most RBs?
I'm sure he's frustrated, but it's not the team's fault. It's unfortunate, with the injuries and all, but I just don't see where he's in a place to be holding out.
gtalk12
Ravens Ring of Honor
2020 he was first in YPC for RBs.
2022 he was second in YPC
His biggest issue for better or worse was his usage.
The talent is there for sure or atleast it was before injury.. he looked better than najee harris with the ball his hand thats for sure
Tank
Hall of Famer
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
It's injury recovery, and its usage. And I'm guilty of the latter, but the premise is... if I give Dobbins 250 carries in a workhorse role, is 6.0 YPC or whatever he averaged down the stretch reasonable? Like that's at a all-time legendary type level.
Realistically more volume means his YPC probably comes down. It's still solid, but I'm not sure he's ever going to get a bellcow type role here anyway. Even more in an offense that figures to throw the ball a lot more this year.
And like he may be able to get something similar to an Aaron Jones contract (though probably not for 4 years), but like Jones contract, while looks great on the surface (4 for $48M), he got $13M gtd, which was his signing bonus. He got no gtd $ beyond year 1. And he took a substantial paycut just this offseason two years into his deal to avoid getting cut entirely.
The reality is that the top of the RB market in terms of AAV of what would actually get paid is in the $10-12M range. That's the ceiling. He'd have to show he belongs in that group. Today, he doesn't.