allblackraven
Hall of Famer
True
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2019 DL Thread
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
He looked good but not particularly dominant or flashy in the drills
Can’t michael pierce also do this or has he got some other acrobatic skill that I’m conflating
Renell Wren looks like the guy to watch.
Charm City
Pro Bowler
I really liked what I've seen from LJ collier in the senior bowl practices. A tweener DE (6'4'', 270lbs) with a great bull rush and room to grow into his frame. Reminds me of Z Smith. Could be his replacement in the mid rounds
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I really like Omenihu a lot. Great mover, great all around trench defender, he’s small for a DT but still powerful and very long, he’s quite big and powerful for an edge guy but more than adequate athleticism, he’s legitimately a 3-4 edge with the width and power of a finesse DT
I don't know. Toolsy guy for sure, has some great plays against Big12 OL, but he's so stiff and he has no pass rush plan. He's going to need a year or two before he can actually make an impact.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Wilkins has improved a ton.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
I would agree. I actually wouldn't mind taking him in the first. No more settling for mediocre bullshit like Wormley, I beg of you.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
A few weeks ago I would acknowledge that Allen’s a good talent but wouldn’t want a 5T in the first...
I’ve changed my tune, I think he’s an elite talent and damn his position he’s a steal at 22.
Not to mention that he’s a 5T right NOW, he has a skill set to be so much more depending on how he physically matures in an nfl training program. He has spectacular bend for a man his size and moves very well in space, a guy that big dropping into zones from a 3 point stance and actually making plays is indicative of some serious overall football ability. He looks like a typical corn fed 5tech from a physical standpoint, and for the most part he plays like one, sets the edge, crashes well in the run, holds the backside well, 2 gaps, etc. but where he becomes a “different” type of player is when he fires off the edge on money downs and bends incredibly well without losing any of the hard nosed 5tech traits.
For a top10 talent he got taken to school at every Senior Bowl rep.
Italian Raven
Veteran
True, and it also turned one of his early admirers (myself) down quite a bit. He did show lack of creativity and pass rushing plan on almost every snap and honestly I don't get why. You watch the tapes and you'll see a clever player reading RB screens with anticipation and putting himself in a position to make a play.
On top, 1on1s are overrated.
You don't get those wide pass rushing lanes coming game time (QBs are going to step into the throws instead of taking 10-12 yard dropbacks), nor you turn so many counters or B gap spins into pressures (because guards are no mannequins and there's traffic inside).
Look at Noah Spence dominating the Senior Bowl week and coming outta kind of nowhere to then get selected early RD2 and disappear in the pros. Look at Denny Shelton demolishing with easy any Olineman he had faced back then and now being a very average DT.
Like you said, it's been a disappointing show, indeed, but I wouldn't consider the SenBowl to be a huge indicator of a player's skillset. Pretty much like the combine.
He won't test great there, either, and if these two occasions are a chance for him to fall into our laps I'm still taking him before any Polite/Burns/Ferrell.
I also project him as a totally different player and specifically edge rusher once he gets into a professional conditioning program and loses 15 pounds or so.
So it doesn't scare you that despite the very advantageous position he was put in as a defender in those drills he lost almost all of his reps? Like you said he didn't have a plan, was too stiff to win against tackles and didn't have the strength to move guards. Hell, he wasn't even strong enough to move tackles or quick enough to get past guards. He is clearly physically limited and not a great technician either. I liked him a lot during the season but I've cooled down big time, and not just from those reps but those same concerns appear on tape. The Senior Bowl was just a confirmation. He was a fringe 1st rounder before, he's a 3rd right now to me.
Italian Raven
Veteran
You re right ..he should've been able to take advantage of those reps.. Idk what his problems were if he took a break in the offseason or what because I had never seen him that 'uncomfortable' before.
I guess my main problem comes from the risk I see in drafting a one dimentional player like Polite/Burns to hate enough on Allen SenBowl performance. Their cons are still worse than his imo.
He's a capable run defender at worst with only one bad tape (Lou), while showing some good intagibles like low pads at the point of attack and disengaging technique. He might be able to improve drastically with a good conditioning program.
Maybe it's more faith/hope than real belief..
Guess re watching the tapes again will help clearing it up. I have my 'plays-tracker' so it shouldn't be too hard to go back at it
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Watching Allen's tape.. He's a first rounder. There's a couple things that make me think that he's problems with a ack of pass rushing moves can be overcome, and that's more due to coaching, or a lack thereof he received in college.
Namely, he's really smart on the field, and I'd argue he'd be an elite run defender from day one. He's got fantastic instincts, is always got his eyes in the backfield he reads the play correctly, and he's very well disciplined. He is ridiculously good at setting a hard edge in a run game and routinely drew a double team in pass protection. Offense's gameplanned for him, and Boston College forced him to play out of his natural position.
I don't see him as stiff, and even if he looked like that at the seinor bowl, he did not look that way all the time in college, and I question what the hell you're watching if you think he's stiff. For a dude his size he has really good burst, he's got good bend, good discipline, smart player. And one other thing, he's really strong.
He's raw as a pass rusher, but he seems coachable. After all, he was playing the edge a decent bit in college, and did beat tackles with his athleticism despite being the same size. If he's flexible enough to get bend, he can develop into a really good pass rusher
Sometimes a first round pick isn't immediately ready but if he displays high level athletic ability, which for a defensive lineman ON the field, he shows heaps, and he displays that one part of his game is smart and technically sound. Yeah. That's a pick who's worth it
Namely, he's really smart on the field, and I'd argue he'd be an elite run defender from day one. He's got fantastic instincts, is always got his eyes in the backfield he reads the play correctly, and he's very well disciplined. He is ridiculously good at setting a hard edge in a run game and routinely drew a double team in pass protection. Offense's gameplanned for him, and Boston College forced him to play out of his natural position.
I don't see him as stiff, and even if he looked like that at the seinor bowl, he did not look that way all the time in college, and I question what the hell you're watching if you think he's stiff. For a dude his size he has really good burst, he's got good bend, good discipline, smart player. And one other thing, he's really strong.
He's raw as a pass rusher, but he seems coachable. After all, he was playing the edge a decent bit in college, and did beat tackles with his athleticism despite being the same size. If he's flexible enough to get bend, he can develop into a really good pass rusher
Sometimes a first round pick isn't immediately ready but if he displays high level athletic ability, which for a defensive lineman ON the field, he shows heaps, and he displays that one part of his game is smart and technically sound. Yeah. That's a pick who's worth it
If we're talking upside at the position my money is rather on Carl Granderson or D'andre Walker. Those guys have great traits and could become dominant if they put it all together. And as far as IQ goes Walker is very advanced.
And Omenihu, almost forgot. I don't really see what to work with with Allen. He's raw technically and just about decent athletically. That's not a recipe for a first rounder to me. Yes you can teach him but you wouldn't see the results before a few years and I'm not even sure the final product would be worth it.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I didn’t see it. Haven’t had much freedom to watch football and study prospects this year, didn’t catch a second of the senior bowl coverage