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2019 DL Thread

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Watching Allen's tape.. He's a first rounder. There's a couple things that make me think that he's problems with a ack of pass rushing moves can be overcome, and that's more due to coaching, or a lack thereof he received in college.

Namely, he's really smart on the field, and I'd argue he'd be an elite run defender from day one. He's got fantastic instincts, is always got his eyes in the backfield he reads the play correctly, and he's very well disciplined. He is ridiculously good at setting a hard edge in a run game and routinely drew a double team in pass protection. Offense's gameplanned for him, and Boston College forced him to play out of his natural position.

I don't see him as stiff, and even if he looked like that at the seinor bowl, he did not look that way all the time in college, and I question what the hell you're watching if you think he's stiff. For a dude his size he has really good burst, he's got good bend, good discipline, smart player. And one other thing, he's really strong.

He's raw as a pass rusher, but he seems coachable. After all, he was playing the edge a decent bit in college, and did beat tackles with his athleticism despite being the same size. If he's flexible enough to get bend, he can develop into a really good pass rusher

Sometimes a first round pick isn't immediately ready but if he displays high level athletic ability, which for a defensive lineman ON the field, he shows heaps, and he displays that one part of his game is smart and technically sound. Yeah. That's a pick who's worth it
This is what I saw in Allen’s tape, were in full agreement on every aspect of him
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
If we're talking upside at the position my money is rather on Carl Granderson or D'andre Walker. Those guys have great traits and could become dominant if they put it all together. And as far as IQ goes Walker is very advanced.
I’ve liked Granderson for a while, I was studying him last year, he’s a great violent rusher with adequate burst, lacking in flexibility around the edge but he counters extremely well and shoots laterally very well too which would be useful for stunts.

I saw one game of Walker and came away thinking the same thing, he’s a very smart and instinctive player but what I saw came primarily in the run game, I saw nothing in that game as a pass rusher but he was money on crashing the edge on interior runs, backside pursuit, and forcing the issue on runs to his side, just looked extremely aware and disciplined and instinctive.

What are your thoughts on joe Jackson?
 
I've made a kinda review on Allen myself (albeit, perhaps, with a grammar that would give english native speakers eye cancer).. Just don't know where to find it anymore.. I have to think in the 'too early prospects' thread.

This is the play 'tracker' I keep to go back watching those specific traits one needs

VT



00.40
Very strong punch, push pull

1.10
Nice bull rush, shread for run stop

2.32
Patient, gap control, shreads for tackle

4.04
Well executed rip


CLE
2.30
Good hips always turned to the qb, rip, closing angle

5.50
Senses weakness in B gap, slaps the Ts hands to keep frame clean and penetrates

7.28
Feet speed, nice swim inside. Feeling for the position

13.14
Processing informations: starts by attacking the inside, remains low, sees it's a screen and side steps to take away the angle, closes on QB

16.14
Starts outside, slap/swim inside

17.28
Bench presses the RT, good motor and pursuit


WF 2018

9.31
Very active hands, feeling for the position

12.09
Solid bull rush

13.00
Gets low and turns the hips with good timing


ND

1.52
Great bull rush on RT

2.41
Motor; doesn't lose pursuit speed after bull rushing

3.10
0t, great explosion off the snap, triple teamed

6.24
4t, wins inside with quick swim; double teamed

9.31
Gets stalled, lack of creativity


TEM

01:01
Slap swim inside

1:49
Throws aside the RT and swim

2:03
Bullrush, very low pads

6:20
Bullrush

6:59
Bullrush, upper body strength

7:25
Bullrush, pad level

7:35
Well timed club


Vs Lou

1.26 allows early contact into his chest. Too slow and lacks motor to be anyhow effective

9.44 allows contact and doesn't show speed nor acceleration to threaten outside

16.40 bites on the fake handoff to RB

18.54 LG and TE pull in his direction. Instead of taking on blocker and push him into the runner's lane .he lowers the shoulder and doesn't affect the play

43.00 gets free release and tackes ballcarrier down for a loss

48.13 bites on fake handoff to RB

59.43 gets some push on Lineman and disrupts play in the bf

1.26.11 3t hands to the ground. Penetrates A gap and tackle for loss

1.35.27 good getoff and power to get through B gap for QB pressure

1.38.19 good use of the hands to prevent contact. Shares sack

2.02.23 good getoff and swim to maintain frame free. Shares sack


Vs FlaST

00.13 nice swim to elude LT contact and get in the bf

2.40 doesn't have speed and bend. Too wide frame for easy RT contact

4.37 good push in C gap to require 2 blockers

4.57 good club move and closing angle for QB hit

5.21 nice slap inside and pad level to reach runner in the bf

9.03 poor RT play but good use of the hands and finish on his part. Lacks 2nd gear tho

10.20 good swim and hips to win outside

10.45 shoots B gap with explosiveness pushing the RB outside

11.42 good strength and motor facing double team

11.52 very good getoff and linear speed to disrupt the play

12.55 good swim to get into bf
 

Jacquouille

Ravens Ring of Honor
Supporter
I’ve liked Granderson for a while, I was studying him last year, he’s a great violent rusher with adequate burst, lacking in flexibility around the edge but he counters extremely well and shoots laterally very well too which would be useful for stunts.

I saw one game of Walker and came away thinking the same thing, he’s a very smart and instinctive player but what I saw came primarily in the run game, I saw nothing in that game as a pass rusher but he was money on crashing the edge on interior runs, backside pursuit, and forcing the issue on runs to his side, just looked extremely aware and disciplined and instinctive.

What are your thoughts on joe Jackson?
Granderson isn't the bendiest but he's got twitch and agility. He has good lenght and strength, good getoff. All those tools if he puts it all together can make for a complete pass rusher, able to win outside as well as inside.

Walker, you're talking about a smart, very aware player with good floor and tremendous tools to work with in the rush department. I don't really understand that people don't talk about him more.

I'd say Jackson falls in the same category as a toolsy guy with refinement needed. I think for a big guy he lacks strength but he does place his hands well and has a real motor. I think he's still not mentaly ready for the NFL but I could see him having a ZDS type of career where by year 3 he will have a full arsenal of moves and a more explosive body and turn it into good production. I'm not really sure where the stock is on him though, some have him day 3 and some have him borderline day 1. I'd say the end of round 3 is the soft spot.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Granderson isn't the bendiest but he's got twitch and agility. He has good lenght and strength, good getoff. All those tools if he puts it all together can make for a complete pass rusher, able to win outside as well as inside.

Walker, you're talking about a smart, very aware player with good floor and tremendous tools to work with in the rush department. I don't really understand that people don't talk about him more.

I'd say Jackson falls in the same category as a toolsy guy with refinement needed. I think for a big guy he lacks strength but he does place his hands well and has a real motor. I think he's still not mentaly ready for the NFL but I could see him having a ZDS type of career where by year 3 he will have a full arsenal of moves and a more explosive body and turn it into good production. I'm not really sure where the stock is on him though, some have him day 3 and some have him borderline day 1. I'd say the end of round 3 is the soft spot.
So we’re in pretty good agreement on all three, for Walker I think it’s the lack of exciting top end traits, but I’d LOVE to see us grab a player like that on day 3, he’d be the ultimate harbaugh guy and probably a fan favorite as well.

With Jackson I don’t necesssrily think he’s weak because he has a really good speed to power rush, when he gets that good get off and has room to extend and lower for that one hand stab he really is able to bull guys. My biggest gripe with him is his clunky get off, like he’s way too arched in his stance and it causes him to stand straight up sometimes rather than fly off the ball and charge ahead
 

Jacquouille

Ravens Ring of Honor
Supporter
So we’re in pretty good agreement on all three, for Walker I think it’s the lack of exciting top end traits, but I’d LOVE to see us grab a player like that on day 3, he’d be the ultimate harbaugh guy and probably a fan favorite as well.

With Jackson I don’t necesssrily think he’s weak because he has a really good speed to power rush, when he gets that good get off and has room to extend and lower for that one hand stab he really is able to bull guys. My biggest gripe with him is his clunky get off, like he’s way too arched in his stance and it causes him to stand straight up sometimes rather than fly off the ball and charge ahead
I disagree that Walker doesn't have exciting traits. He's very long, very strong and stupidly agile for a guy with his stature. He has some reps where he tightens the arch as well as anybody I've seen. His getoff isn't in the elite range but it's definitely good enough for me.

I don't mean to say Jackson is weak, I just feel like for a guy with his size and given that he gets pretty efficiently in people's chest you'd really expect more pop and a more efficient bullrush. I don't feel like it's a definite problems but it feels just frustrating at times. I happened to watch LJ Collier vs Cal just after him and you could tell the difference. With Jackson I get why people like him but he feels very incomplete all around. Will need to watch more though.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
I disagree that Walker doesn't have exciting traits. He's very long, very strong and stupidly agile for a guy with his stature. He has some reps where he tightens the arch as well as anybody I've seen. His getoff isn't in the elite range but it's definitely good enough for me.

I don't mean to say Jackson is weak, I just feel like for a guy with his size and given that he gets pretty efficiently in people's chest you'd really expect more pop and a more efficient bullrush. I don't feel like it's a definite problems but it feels just frustrating at times. I happened to watch LJ Collier vs Cal just after him and you could tell the difference. With Jackson I get why people like him but he feels very incomplete all around. Will need to watch more though.
I only watched one game of walkers and that’s what I came away with, his get off was pretty meh and he didn’t seem to reach the arc very well. But again, one game lol
 

Jacquouille

Ravens Ring of Honor
Supporter
I only watched one game of walkers and that’s what I came away with, his get off was pretty meh and he didn’t seem to reach the arc very well. But again, one game lol
With Walker he has some reps that makes you believe he should go top 10. Kinda like with Matt Judon. His length, power and awareness lead me to believe he'd be a great fit here. On the other hand his flexibility and ceiling show a guy who could break 10 sacks in a couple of years.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
With Walker he has some reps that makes you believe he should go top 10. Kinda like with Matt Judon. His length, power and awareness lead me to believe he'd be a great fit here. On the other hand his flexibility and ceiling show a guy who could break 10 sacks in a couple of years.
Judon comp seems pretty solid from what I’ve seen. Handsy, strong, lengthy, stout in the run, highly intelligent and aware(a trait of judons that’s often lost due to his occasional bonehead penalty).
 

A1A

Veteran
The video of him at 17 years old in high school where he was defending his sister in a complicated situation. Took responsibility and has since been on the right track. I'm tired of drafting DL every year but for that dude hell yea!
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
The video of him at 17 years old in high school where he was defending his sister in a complicated situation. Took responsibility and has since been on the right track. I'm tired of drafting DL every year but for that dude hell yea!
Drafting DL every year is the right thing to do. Both lines actually
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
The video of him at 17 years old in high school where he was defending his sister in a complicated situation. Took responsibility and has since been on the right track. I'm tired of drafting DL every year but for that dude hell yea!
I would take Simmons in the third in a fucking heartbeat, will the ravens though? Doubt it. It sucks but I just don’t see it happening for this team anymore, even 5 years after ray rice.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Quinnen Williams just ran a 4.87 4.84 . 40. That's ridiculous
 
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RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Dexter Lawrence had a quad injury in the 40 (5.05) and is done for the day
 
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