The Good, The Bad and the Yucs

[RavensMania]

Every single one of those teams relying on rookies to win are terrible teams in the first place, which is why they are struggling. Lamar is not just a unique player and nothing like those other guys, but he is also in a unique position compared to them. We are likely headed to the playoffs; we don't have the luxury of bringing him along so slowly. Keep in mind that it is never good to be so one dimensional. He has yet to face an even mediocre NFL defense. It won't be pretty if he doesn't start spreading his wings a little, so like I said, I'd rather see him slip up now and learn from it than throw him in the fire against playoff teams, in the playoffs, when one loss means there is no next week.

Well next week is the best defense he has faced

 

[JoeyFlex5]

No.

I know I wasn't here draft time, but I can assure you that nobody was cheering louder when we called his name at the draft. There is nothing more I want than to see him become what I think he is capable of becoming. I don't have some secret hate for Lamar. I don't want to see him fail. If he fails, our entire organization fails. I don't know about you, but that is not okay with me.

And again, I never said he has not shown any progression. Those words never came out of my mouth, they were put in my mouth. That being said, I don't see this immense progress that some people are trying to tout.
I will agree that he made a couple throws today that were as good or better than what we've seen up to this point. But that is not really saying much either, especially against one of the worst defenses in the league.

So now that we're clear on how I feel about him and what I wish to see from him, as I said to Mili, I do not put that on Lamar. I think it is the coaches babying him too much. He's going to fuck up. That is unavoidable. But I would much rather see those fuck ups coming against these weak opponents he has been facing where a mistake or two isn't an insurmountable hurdle, and then he learns from it, rather than him being put under the fire unprepared next month, where one loss means there is no next week.

But you keep describing his performances as so black and white as if he is doing nothing different just because his numbers are similar. Some of the throws he made this week are ones that he legitimately would not have made a month ago, hell he even looked better running the ball today than he has since cinci.

And I’m not saying you have some hatred for lamar, I’m just saying that I think you’re watching him in a very casual way and you can’t see the improvements he’s made that doesn’t show up in the stat sheet. I have plenty of concerns with lamar myself, outside of the accuracy, my issue particularly is his failure to see linebackers underneath in zone, he did it in college and he’s doing it now, so I don’t think lamar is some sure thing either, I’m just encouraged by the progress I see and you don’t seem to see it and it’s just strange to me.

Also, there is zero need to take the gloves off right now, he’s not ready for it, and we don’t need it because we have proven we can keep score with the best offense in the league, if this is working then stick with it until it doesn’t, that’s when you make adjustments. We’re in the thick of a playoff race, don’t go fucking with what’s worked so well. He needs another offseason or 2, I expect a big leap and the gloves to begin coming off next year, as it should be.

 

[rossihunter2]

Aside from the 2 really bad passes when it was raining hard, did lamar have his best game today?

I’m gonna have to carefully rewatch - from what I saw it felt similar to the last game - a little more controlled but no huge obvious difference as a first impression

I wasn’t watching as closely as previous games though and as a little proviso I really thought the chiefs game was a significant sign of improvement

 

[flynismo]

But you keep describing his performances as so black and white as if he is doing nothing different just because his numbers are similar. Some of the throws he made this week are ones that he legitimately would not have made a month ago, hell he even looked better running the ball today than he has since cinci.

And I’m not saying you have some hatred for lamar, I’m just saying that I think you’re watching him in a very casual way and you can’t see the improvements he’s made that doesn’t show up in the stat sheet. I have plenty of concerns with lamar myself, outside of the accuracy, my issue particularly is his failure to see linebackers underneath in zone, he did it in college and he’s doing it now, so I don’t think lamar is some sure thing either, I’m just encouraged by the progress I see and you don’t seem to see it and it’s just strange to me.

Also, there is zero need to take the gloves off right now, he’s not ready for it, and we don’t need it because we have proven we can keep score with the best offense in the league, if this is working then stick with it until it doesn’t, that’s when you make adjustments. We’re in the thick of a playoff race, don’t go fucking with what’s worked so well. He needs another offseason or 2, I expect a big leap and the gloves to begin coming off next year, as it should be.

I don't know what else to say about that whole progression thing. I see improvements. A lot of it in my view is simply him catching up with the NFL speed and level of play. And that is a fucking good thing because it means he is getting closer to becoming the guy he was in college. But this babying him stuff...it is holding him back. Is he ready? No? When will he be ready then...how many years of playing it safe would you say he needs before he is ready? In my estimation, it will be never. He'll never be able to thread a needle with any consistency or throw into impossible windows like my boy Flacco until they actually put the faith in him to do it.
Now, after five weeks of playing weak defenses, we find ourselves facing LAC. What's he going to do when they stuff 8 in the box and shut down our running game and dare him to throw on them? What's he going to do when he is in obvious passing situations or when they take away the RPO? I mean there's a million scenarios going through my head, and he is not ready for any of them because he is being so sheltered.

 

[rossihunter2]

Every single one of those teams relying on rookies to win are terrible teams in the first place, which is why they are struggling. Lamar is not just a unique player and nothing like those other guys, but he is also in a unique position compared to them. We are likely headed to the playoffs; we don't have the luxury of bringing him along so slowly. Keep in mind that it is never good to be so one dimensional. He has yet to face an even mediocre NFL defense. It won't be pretty if he doesn't start spreading his wings a little, so like I said, I'd rather see him slip up now and learn from it than throw him in the fire against playoff teams, in the playoffs, when one loss means there is no next week.

100% Lamar’s got a live arm and we saw him throw the bomb that got called back via penalty to John brown, we saw him miss brown wide open deep when he reset the pocket a couple of weeks ago and we saw a nice deep ball to Chris Moore that should have led to a DPI or a catch

My problem is we’re not dialling up those plays enough and I’ve been begging Marty to let him unload since the bengals game finished

He did make one of his best throws as a Raven today though - the 20+ yard seam to willie Snead in stride on a really quick read was beautiful and all the more promising because it was the exact type of look and read he misread a couple of weeks ago 4-5 times in one game - today he saw the similar look and found the receiver in stride in the right spot and got the ball there quickly and on time

 

[Edgar]

Lamar was very good on the final drive of the first half. Nice job by the team of hustling to the line and of being clock conscious.
A particularly great throw to Snead clearing the under coverage and hitting him in stride . Also, makes a nice last second read, pulls down what would have been a check down and finds Andrews.
good stuff.

 

[rossihunter2]

I don't know what else to say about that whole progression thing. I see improvements. A lot of it in my view is simply him catching up with the NFL speed and level of play. And that is a fucking good thing because it means he is getting closer to becoming the guy he was in college. But this babying him stuff...it is holding him back. Is he ready? No? When will he be ready then...how many years of playing it safe would you say he needs before he is ready? In my estimation, it will be never. He'll never be able to thread a needle with any consistency or throw into impossible windows like my boy Flacco until they actually put the faith in him to do it.
Now, after five weeks of playing weak defenses, we find ourselves facing LAC. What's he going to do when they stuff 8 in the box and shut down our running game and dare him to throw on them? What's he going to do when he is in obvious passing situations or when they take away the RPO? I mean there's a million scenarios going through my head, and he is not ready for any of them because he is being so sheltered.

I mean I’ve personally been mightily impressed with his progress

And that’s one of the reasons why I agree with you - take the kid gloves off and open up the playbook and game plan - that doesn’t mean we forget about the bread and butter zone-read RPO and option offence stuff (as long as Lamar makes the right read it’s almost impossible to stop the rpos - and if a defence sells out to stop the zone read it opens up the intermediate passes over the middle) it just means that in some situations I want to see us take some chances for big chunk plays downfield

 

[SepticeyePoe]

I’m gonna have to carefully rewatch - from what I saw it felt similar to the last game - a little more controlled but no huge obvious difference as a first impression

I wasn’t watching as closely as previous games though and as a little proviso I really thought the chiefs game was a significant sign of improvement

If you can, can you see how often Bozeman played LG in the first half. If not, that's ok, but I'm curious to see how much time he got there and if the line is better with him at guard instead of Hurst.

I know I saw him at guard (and not as a 6th lineman) for consecutive plays, but then I lost track of him. When I looked in the 2nd half, Hurst was playing at lg again.

 

[rossihunter2]

If you can, can you see how often Bozeman played LG in the first half. If not, that's ok, but I'm curious to see how much time he got there and if the line is better with him at guard instead of Hurst.

I know I saw him at guard (and not as a 6th lineman) for consecutive plays, but then I lost track of him. When I looked in the 2nd half, Hurst was playing at lg again.

Yeah he definitely replaced hurst at guard for at least most of a drive from what I recall

The quality of that play comparatively and how many snaps is probably one for @Filmstudy or his OL scoring article but I’ll keep an eye out for him when I go back to have a look at Lamar

 

[flynismo]

100% Lamar’s got a live arm and we saw him throw the bomb that got called back via penalty to John brown, we saw him miss brown wide open deep when he reset the pocket a couple of weeks ago and we saw a nice deep ball to Chris Moore that should have led to a DPI or a catch

My problem is we’re not dialling up those plays enough and I’ve been begging Marty to let him unload since the bengals game finished

He did make one of his best throws as a Raven today though - the 20+ yard seam to willie Snead in stride on a really quick read was beautiful and all the more promising because it was the exact type of look and read he misread a couple of weeks ago 4-5 times in one game - today he saw the similar look and found the receiver in stride in the right spot and got the ball there quickly and on time

Yes, that pass to Snead was exactly what I (we've all) been waiting to see from him. We just need to see some more of it. I'm not asking for 40 pass attempts every week, or 30 yard bombs every play. I just want that leash to be loosened up a lot more than it has been. Let Lamar be Lamar.

 

[SepticeyePoe]

Yeah he definitely replaced hurst at guard for at least most of a drive from what I recall

The quality of that play comparatively and how many snaps is probably one for @Filmstudy or his OL scoring article but I’ll keep an eye out for him when I go back to have a look at Lamar

Thanks. It's just sticking in my head for some reason.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yes, that pass to Snead was exactly what I (we've all) been waiting to see from him. We just need to see some more of it. I'm not asking for 40 pass attempts every week, or 30 yard bombs every play. I just want that leash to be loosened up a lot more than it has been. Let Lamar be Lamar.

Since going through all the college tape in the lead up to the draft I’ve been a big advocate for his downfield passing and a system that supports his surprising arm strength

If the game plan doesn’t open up this year I’d be disappointed because I think he can handle it (and even if he can’t I think it would be helpful for him to try) but ultimately would probably be able to accept it

But the off-season emphasis absolutely has to be about opening up the outside and downfield passing game (another example was the nice read and throw vs KC - might have been the first throw of the game to Crabtree iirc) whatever happens to finish this season

 

[Jacquouille]

nice to see the UDFA Gus run for 100+ yards
a LOT of 100 yard rushers today. is the run game coming back?

It's been a trend this year. With defenses looking for speed rather than size, especially at the LB position, power running teams have become a hot commodity. I remember Brett Kollman predicting this last year in his Q&A.

 

[arnie_uk]

Aside from the 2 really bad passes when it was raining hard, did lamar have his best game today?

I thought he had 3 awful passes in the first half, 2of which should have been an int and one was a missed td, but starting with the 2 min drive he turner it around

 

[arnie_uk]

It was more of a breakdown. Jameis did a good job scrambling to buy more time but he flung that rock for a 50 or 60 yard play to Mike Evans when Jimmy got caught lacking. MAYBE they were running a zone, but IDK.

As for the fumble, it seemed more of a Lamar fumble than a Gus fumble, but yes it was from a read option.

It was a mis handled snap either because he took his eye of it or the rain. He didnt gather it, it had nothing to do with gus, but i don't think that fumble was any indication of a long term problem

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I thought he had 3 awful passes in the first half, 2of which should have been an int and one was a missed td, but starting with the 2 min drive he turner it around

Yeah it was 3, one was a bad decision and bad read where he once again missed the underneath LB and 2 were just shit throws in the rain,

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I don't know what else to say about that whole progression thing. I see improvements. A lot of it in my view is simply him catching up with the NFL speed and level of play. And that is a fucking good thing because it means he is getting closer to becoming the guy he was in college. But this babying him stuff...it is holding him back. Is he ready? No? When will he be ready then...how many years of playing it safe would you say he needs before he is ready? In my estimation, it will be never. He'll never be able to thread a needle with any consistency or throw into impossible windows like my boy Flacco until they actually put the faith in him to do it.
Now, after five weeks of playing weak defenses, we find ourselves facing LAC. What's he going to do when they stuff 8 in the box and shut down our running game and dare him to throw on them? What's he going to do when he is in obvious passing situations or when they take away the RPO? I mean there's a million scenarios going through my head, and he is not ready for any of them because he is being so sheltered.

No team has been able to do those things yet, no matter how hard they commit to it, they know it’s coming and they can’t stop it, is the chargers talent level gonna be the difference there? I’m not so sure but we’ll see. And he has responded in obvious pass situations before, definitely not consistently, but a few quick drives before the half to get us into fg range are a little encouraging. For me I just think this little bit of protecting is the obvious thing to do, I’d rather see him playing a comfortable game for now and getting his confidence up and winning, than to force things he’s not ready for. This offseason will be big for him.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

100% Lamar’s got a live arm and we saw him throw the bomb that got called back via penalty to John brown, we saw him miss brown wide open deep when he reset the pocket a couple of weeks ago and we saw a nice deep ball to Chris Moore that should have led to a DPI or a catch

My problem is we’re not dialling up those plays enough and I’ve been begging Marty to let him unload since the bengals game finished

He did make one of his best throws as a Raven today though - the 20+ yard seam to willie Snead in stride on a really quick read was beautiful and all the more promising because it was the exact type of look and read he misread a couple of weeks ago 4-5 times in one game - today he saw the similar look and found the receiver in stride in the right spot and got the ball there quickly and on time

Exactly! He’s making plays he wasn’t making a few weeks ago, and it’s been a trend for him, every week or 2 you see these subtle improvements and it’s encouraging.

However, I believe in his down to down accuracy less than you, and we’re still trying to win games, and dialing up those throws too often will lead to wasted snaps, turning into 3rd and long, and a punt.

 

[ravenslord]

Two games left . Time for Weddle to get a pick .

 

[sailorsam]

I fear that Weddle has lost a step and close to being a liability.
Lamar will not last long if he keeps taking hits. good to see him fall and run out of bounds.
I haven't watched the whole game yet maybe tonight
they won't be able to afford turnovers Saturday night