The Offseason Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

https://twitter.com/PFF_Ravens/status/1141005567097524225

Really high run defense grade for Tim Williams, and anyone who has watched film on him shouldn’t be surprised, he was a really solid run defender and better than any of us expected based on his college film

 

[rossihunter2]

Really high run defense grade for Tim Williams, and anyone who has watched film on him shouldn’t be surprised, he was a really solid run defender and better than any of us expected based on his college film

there was that one game in college you could point to for his work as a run defender but he was mostly dismissed because he wasnt ever asked to do it on a consistent basis outside of that one game really because he was such a stud of an edge rusher

 

[JoeyFlex5]

there was that one game in college you could point to for his work as a run defender but he was mostly dismissed because he wasnt ever asked to do it on a consistent basis outside of that one game really because he was such a stud of an edge rusher

Was it LSU or auburn? I wanna say it was LSU where he was a legit wrecking crew as a run defender. I thought Tim Williams was a first round pass rush talent from the start, but that game made me think of him as way more than just a rotational rusher

 

[cobrajet]

Can someone please explain to me how we are supposed to have a successful rushing attack when two absolutely terrible run blockers are starting at LG and C?

I can’t, because this was my biggest concern for this upcoming season and the Ravens did pretty much nothing to address it. I definitely see our offensive line as our Achilles heel and we certainly do not have any good depth on our roster. God forbid we have an injury at Tackle. It actually puts me in a bad mood thinking about it. I keep hearing the talking heads say how good our offensive line is. Bullshit, we did nothing to improve it except draft Powers, who I am still not high on, and Skura will suck just as bad as last year. It blows my mind that we want to be a run heavy team and it looks like we will to go with the same lame LG and C as last season.

 

[allblackraven]

Was it LSU or auburn? I wanna say it was LSU where he was a legit wrecking crew as a run defender. I thought Tim Williams was a first round pass rush talent from the start, but that game made me think of him as way more than just a rotational rusher

He was always more than competent all-around defender, Saban just had a luxury of using him mostly as a very fresh pass rusher.

Kind of total misconception like everybody had about Ronnie Stanley and his run blocking game in college.

 

[cdp]

Some interesting offseason/minicamp tidbits about positional/starting battles (and some comments):

WR:

• Jordan Lasley despite training with lamar has been unimpressive for all bar one day - lots of drops and not really separated from the pack at all
• Jaleel Scott has come on leaps and bounds from where he was last year as a complete non-factor even in the offseason
• Antoine Wesley and Sean Modster have been the most impressive young receivers (brown and boyking havent been involved so much)
• Michael Floyd has not separated particularly well and has had some drops
• Given the Brown and Boykin injuries I cant see how we dont carry at least 6 wrs - if i had to guess right now i'd say it's probably these 6 - Brown, Snead, Boykin, Moore, Wesley, Scott

LG:

• Hurst is still the favourite to start
• Bozeman needs to get stronger/spend less time on the ground
• Eluemunor has taken significant snaps with the first team
• Lewis is still out and I seriously wonder whether he'll make the 53 (either by being cut or by being on PUP/ I/R)
• N.B. it's hard to really glean anything from this competition outside of who's getting snaps with the 1st team because there's basically no contact until training camp - as Harbs rightly said we probably won't find out who's the winner (or at least they wont) until after the first couple of preseason games

C:

• While the fanbases hopes for a competition at LG have come to fruition there seems to be no competition at C and Skura is basically entrenched unless Bozeman has a beast of a camp (and even then he'd probably end up winning the LG spot in stead)

QB:

• Trace Mcsorley has, as expected, been playing a lot on special teams - that's his route onto the roster

ILB:

• CJ Board has come on incredibly strong - he's fast and aggressive and most importantly has spent a lot of time running with the first team at WLB
• Kenny Young has not been bad at all but he may have still been surpassed by Board that's just how well Board has been playing per Zrebiec...
• This is interesting because I never even figured there would be a competition here but given how we used the WLB spot basically in a rotation last year anyway it only helps us if Board has come on as strong as it seems - if he's replacing Peanut in the WLB rotation while Peanut moves to MLB that's not a bad net result - what will be interesting is if Young or Board completely put their stamp on that WLB spot - this is one of the least talked about but apparently open competitions for a starting spot on the team

OLB:

• Hard to tell who's really impressed the most this camp given there's little to no-contact
• Tim Williams if he sorts himself out I'd say may well be the dark horse to start opposite Judon - i just saw the PFF run defence grades for him last year and they're pretty great for someone who was never known for that - as always with Tim this all relies on him sorting out his body and his life when he's not in the building - im rooting for him and it's definitely promising that he's had lots of time with the first team and has made some plays off the edge even without proper contact
• Shane Ray is the wild card i thought wouldnt make the roster but he's the only speed rusher we have outside of timmy and has also had a lot of time with the 1st team at that open rush linebacker spot on the defence
• outside of a few plays in OTAs Bowser has not really been heard from (at least from what ive read) and has not made an impact which is a bit worrying given that these pass heavy periods of the offseason are pretty good times to make a name for yourself when your forte is coverage

S:

• we've all seen the deshon elliott stuff - if it continues through training camp and into the preseason we may see him get on the field in a heavier dime package/big nickel packages (like chuck clark used to come on for)/we might see jefferson play dime sometimes

K:

• Kaare Vedvik has been missing some kicks - something to watch with regards to potential trades/trade value moving forward

As i count it there seem to be only these battles as true open competitions for starting snaps:

WR, LG, ILB, Rush linebacker

but there are also major snaps to be won at:

RB, WR, Rush linebacker, DL

the 2 most interesting battles are WR and Rush linebacker because they go all the way from starter snaps to 53 man bubble competition but the battle that maybe needs some more attention is the WLB spot

Nice summary thanks!
Eluemunor LG?!? 6'5 guard what are they thinking??? Atkins, Donald, 49ers DL, Williams and Leonard and all the other 3techs are going to have a field day especially if Skura is still the C. We're truly f... if Stanley or Brown goes down no depth at the tackle position...

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I can’t, because this was my biggest concern for this upcoming season and the Ravens did pretty much nothing to address it. I definitely see our offensive line as our Achilles heel and we certainly do not have any good depth on our roster. God forbid we have an injury at Tackle. It actually puts me in a bad mood thinking about it. I keep hearing the talking heads say how good our offensive line is. Bullshit, we did nothing to improve it except draft Powers, who I am still not high on, and Skura will suck just as bad as last year. It blows my mind that we want to be a run heavy team and it looks like we will to go with the same lame LG and C as last season.

I think decosta understands that OL is a need, but that the skill positions were drastically weaker, which I agree with. Basically, you could stack the box against this team easily and the OL becomes a much bigger factor, adding marquise brown dramatically reduces the number of 8/9 man fronts we will be facing and takes a big load off of the OL.

Another thing to consider, is that Greg Roman is less dependent on singular OL play and is more about team concepts as a whole, concepts where the TEs and QB factor into the blocking/running scheme nearly as much as the OL does, and ones where poor OL can use certain techniques to mask their deficiencies.

I think decosta saw the OL as a unit that could maybe scrape by for another year with all things considered, but the WRs and pass rush(if I were to assume they have little faith in Tim Williams) simply could not scrape by. Can’t say I disagree as the OL was stronger than the WR corps, although I think the OL is far more important than any group on any team.

 

[rossihunter2]

I think decosta understands that OL is a need, but that the skill positions were drastically weaker, which I agree with. Basically, you could stack the box against this team easily and the OL becomes a much bigger factor, adding marquise brown dramatically reduces the number of 8/9 man fronts we will be facing and takes a big load off of the OL.

Another thing to consider, is that Greg Roman is less dependent on singular OL play and is more about team concepts as a whole, concepts where the TEs and QB factor into the blocking/running scheme nearly as much as the OL does, and ones where poor OL can use certain techniques to mask their deficiencies.

I think decosta saw the OL as a unit that could maybe scrape by for another year with all things considered, but the WRs and pass rush(if I were to assume they have little faith in Tim Williams) simply could not scrape by. Can’t say I disagree as the OL was stronger than the WR corps, although I think the OL is far more important than any group on any team.

i think its more that there are more obviously options on the team at OL and players who can be depended on to be serviceable at least which as you say made the need less urgent - i think its also fair to say that the ravens were dissatisfied with their LG spot last year which is why they've opened up competition this camp and have more options in that competition than they've maybe ever had for any starting spot before - hurst, lewis, eluemunor, powers and bozeman all fighting for nominally one spot on the line - at least 4 of them will likely make the roster anyway

i would have loved to overtly upgrade the OL but we had zero options to obviously do so, so we brought in a steady rookie with some pedigree in a system we like who already has a good relationship with someone else on the OL and who we ostensibly knew a lot about and maybe he wont pan out but it would be awesome if he could upgrade that spot or at least give us serviceable play at LG as a rookie - that would be cool

with the way we pull the LG though it does make the retention of nick boyle extra important moving across the line of scrimmage or anchoring on the backside

 

[cobrajet]

I think decosta understands that OL is a need, but that the skill positions were drastically weaker, which I agree with. Basically, you could stack the box against this team easily and the OL becomes a much bigger factor, adding marquise brown dramatically reduces the number of 8/9 man fronts we will be facing and takes a big load off of the OL.

Another thing to consider, is that Greg Roman is less dependent on singular OL play and is more about team concepts as a whole, concepts where the TEs and QB factor into the blocking/running scheme nearly as much as the OL does, and ones where poor OL can use certain techniques to mask their deficiencies.

I think decosta saw the OL as a unit that could maybe scrape by for another year with all things considered, but the WRs and pass rush(if I were to assume they have little faith in Tim Williams) simply could not scrape by. Can’t say I disagree as the OL was stronger than the WR corps, although I think the OL is far more important than any group on any team.

Hopefully Hollywood fully recovers and Lamar can make teams pay if they stack up on us, but man it is tough thinking about struggling through another year with Skura at Center.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Hopefully Hollywood fully recovers and Lamar can make teams pay if they stack up on us, but man it is tough thinking about struggling through another year with Skura at Center.

People forget how bad this roster was... 2015 was probably what this team should’ve been for most of our post super bowl years. 2013, 16, and 17 we overachieved, and 2014 rode mostly on the back of kubiak.

After the super bowl we needed a complete rebuild and changing of the guard, but rebuilds don’t happen overnight, and That rebuild would be delayed until 2016 because we completely squandered most off seasons after the SB. Once the talentless roster stopped overachieving and we got a high pick, we drafted a franchise LT, possible cornerstone edge defender, and an elite nickel, but this roster was so poor that it would take a lot more than that to rebuild, but we didn’t have cap to do it with so it would take even longer than normal. Thanks to that cap we would lose some quality OL, if we had not signed the likes of rice, Pitta, Monroe, nd had not prioritized fucking Brandon Williams, then we could have kept a Ryan Jensen and we wouldn’t be dealing with this skura debacle. But this team was mismanaged so badly and had no talent for years, it was always gonna be a long rebuild, we just didn’t notice til now.

You can’t address the WRs, safety, pass rush, and OL all in one year, and if we didn’t address those former 3 than we were leaning on Snead/lasley/Scott, Elliott/Clark, and Williams/bowser in those roles. We had no idea if Elliott was gonna continue his great preseason play, and we never know what to expect from Williams and bowser, and thank fuck we didn’t expect some breakout from lasley because apparently he’s been MIA. So at this rate, it looks like the FO quite possibly made the right moves. This rebuild is just gonna take more time

Lol sorry I rambled so much. I had a point and then missed it and just kept going lmao

 

[Oldfaithful]

Lol sorry I rambled so much. I had a point and then missed it and just kept going lmao

Fake news. There was no melt down.

 

[redrum52]

People forget how bad this roster was... 2015 was probably what this team should’ve been for most of our post super bowl years. 2013, 16, and 17 we overachieved, and 2014 rode mostly on the back of kubiak.

After the super bowl we needed a complete rebuild and changing of the guard, but rebuilds don’t happen overnight, and That rebuild would be delayed until 2016 because we completely squandered most off seasons after the SB. Once the talentless roster stopped overachieving and we got a high pick, we drafted a franchise LT, possible cornerstone edge defender, and an elite nickel, but this roster was so poor that it would take a lot more than that to rebuild, but we didn’t have cap to do it with so it would take even longer than normal. Thanks to that cap we would lose some quality OL, if we had not signed the likes of rice, Pitta, Monroe, nd had not prioritized fucking Brandon Williams, then we could have kept a Ryan Jensen and we wouldn’t be dealing with this skura debacle. But this team was mismanaged so badly and had no talent for years, it was always gonna be a long rebuild, we just didn’t notice til now.

You can’t address the WRs, safety, pass rush, and OL all in one year, and if we didn’t address those former 3 than we were leaning on Snead/lasley/Scott, Elliott/Clark, and Williams/bowser in those roles. We had no idea if Elliott was gonna continue his great preseason play, and we never know what to expect from Williams and bowser, and thank fuck we didn’t expect some breakout from lasley because apparently he’s been MIA. So at this rate, it looks like the FO quite possibly made the right moves. This rebuild is just gonna take more time

Lol sorry I rambled so much. I had a point and then missed it and just kept going lmao

13 we wasted one of our better defenses. I really don't think people give them enough credit for how well they played and kept us in games. Also, one of Jimmy's full 16 game seasons. GODDAM that OL was fucking awful that season. And don't @ me about that Broncos game.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

13 we wasted one of our better defenses. I really don't think people give them enough credit for how well they played and kept us in games. Also, one of Jimmy's full 16 game seasons. GODDAM that OL was fucking awful that season. And don't @ me about that Broncos game.

13 had Michael huff and pre-broncos darian Stewart, and no quality corner opposite jimmy.

I’ll maintain this bold statement, there was no better corner in the league for all of 2013+Jimmy’s healthy time in 2014.

I’ll also maintain that Daryl Smith’s 2013 performance was superior to any single season performance by cj Mosley, dont@me.

But aside from jimmy, Daryl Smith, doom, and sizzle, 2013 wasn’t a great defense, those guys really made it go but the rest was kinda just journeymen and backups. Like I said, 2013 was a big overachievement, a few key players like those 4 I named are the primary reason, along with more overachieving by marlon brown and Torrey Smith if you wanna talk offense.

 

[cobrajet]

People forget how bad this roster was... 2015 was probably what this team should’ve been for most of our post super bowl years. 2013, 16, and 17 we overachieved, and 2014 rode mostly on the back of kubiak.

After the super bowl we needed a complete rebuild and changing of the guard, but rebuilds don’t happen overnight, and That rebuild would be delayed until 2016 because we completely squandered most off seasons after the SB. Once the talentless roster stopped overachieving and we got a high pick, we drafted a franchise LT, possible cornerstone edge defender, and an elite nickel, but this roster was so poor that it would take a lot more than that to rebuild, but we didn’t have cap to do it with so it would take even longer than normal. Thanks to that cap we would lose some quality OL, if we had not signed the likes of rice, Pitta, Monroe, nd had not prioritized fucking Brandon Williams, then we could have kept a Ryan Jensen and we wouldn’t be dealing with this skura debacle. But this team was mismanaged so badly and had no talent for years, it was always gonna be a long rebuild, we just didn’t notice til now.

You can’t address the WRs, safety, pass rush, and OL all in one year, and if we didn’t address those former 3 than we were leaning on Snead/lasley/Scott, Elliott/Clark, and Williams/bowser in those roles. We had no idea if Elliott was gonna continue his great preseason play, and we never know what to expect from Williams and bowser, and thank fuck we didn’t expect some breakout from lasley because apparently he’s been MIA. So at this rate, it looks like the FO quite possibly made the right moves. This rebuild is just gonna take more time

Lol sorry I rambled so much. I had a point and then missed it and just kept going lmao

I see it, as you wrote it. We did overachieve and I guess I am just a little frustrated because those signings did put us in cap hell. I think the frustrating part is knowing that the weakest link last year was Center and we only had so many picks and many needs were addressed. I am okay with LG, as a serviceable one will emerge during camp. I just think that if we had a good Center to replace Skura and we could stay healthy, we would have something special.

 

[Deebo813]

patriots over achieve every season..

 

[A1A]

patriots over achieve every season..

Basic coaching goes a long way.

 

[Sandtown]

Really high run defense grade for Tim Williams, and anyone who has watched film on him shouldn’t be surprised, he was a really solid run defender and better than any of us expected based on his college film

Even with that being true. I dont think Williams is your ideal every down outside linebacker. Even The Ravens owner hinted to the same belief.

 

[Sandtown]

13 had Michael huff and pre-broncos darian Stewart, and no quality corner opposite jimmy.

.

I think you are thinking of The Ravens 2014 defense . The Ravens starting cornerbacks in 2013 was Jimmy Smith, Ladarius Webb and Corey Graham. Webb had some up and down performances but Corey Graham was pretty good for The Ravens in 2013. Darian Stewart didnt become apart of the team until 2014 but before that it was just Matt Elam and James Ihedigbo as The Ravens starting safeties in 2013 especially after Micheal Huff was cut. James Ihedigbo basically had a breakout season for The Ravens in 2013 and basically replaced Bernard Pollard.

 

[Tank]

13 had Michael huff and pre-broncos darian Stewart, and no quality corner opposite jimmy.

I’ll maintain this bold statement, there was no better corner in the league for all of 2013+Jimmy’s healthy time in 2014.

I’ll also maintain that Daryl Smith’s 2013 performance was superior to any single season performance by cj Mosley, dont@me.

But aside from jimmy, Daryl Smith, doom, and sizzle, 2013 wasn’t a great defense, those guys really made it go but the rest was kinda just journeymen and backups. Like I said, 2013 was a big overachievement, a few key players like those 4 I named are the primary reason, along with more overachieving by marlon brown and Torrey Smith if you wanna talk offense.

Daryl Smith was a God send and stepped in for Ray without missing a beat, arguably an upgrade. Probably the most underrated player ever.

 

[Tank]

patriots over achieve every season..

yeah, but they cheat, so........ lol