i mean waddle is an amazing prospect - it would be utterly insane having both him and hollywood - that would be wild and I'm all here for it but it's never going to happen lol
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2021 WR Thread
- Thread starter JoeyFlex5
- Start date
i mean waddle is an amazing prospect - it would be utterly insane having both him and hollywood - that would be wild and I'm all here for it but it's never going to happen lol
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Agreed on the press, I assume every prospect is gonna struggle with press more than anything, unless they give me concrete evidence(which is kinda rare), so I always factor that in with WRs lol
there's things prospects do when they release that can give you clues - obviously if they never line up outside you're just never going to see any reps that remotely look like it - but there are guys who line up outside but dont get physically pressed (more soft-pressed) and how they release tells you a lot about what they might be able to do
dwayne eskridge was one of the few smaller faster guys who faced press on the tape i watched - and while it wasnt always perfect i saw him using his 2-way-go to create room to release, and i saw him using his hands to swat away the corner's hands to protect his chest - now the issue with eskridge is that the level of competition is lower (which is why this senior bowl week will be massive for him - and if he shows out i think he's going to skyrocket up a lot of people's boards)
but yeah with the guys you dont get to see that on tape - im looking for traits physically that suggest they can deal with press or route running savvy that suggests that they already have in their brain that idea of how to release to out-leverage a corner...
but you're right that it's so rare to find concrete evidence
now the problem i have is when you do have a ton of reps but the prospect does poorly consistently - now does the inability to get off the line of scrimmage (and generally just run routes) push them down the board below guys who've not been pressed at all? that's the difficulty i have and specifically with 1 prospect in particular who was consistently pressed out of the play on tape
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I try to look for chest and pad height and how square they are to the end zone when they’re coming off the snap, if you’re upright and square to the end zone at the snap in the nfl then you have been removed from the play already if that corner is lined up within 5 yards of you, those guys I immediately put a big red flag on lol, guys who turn and extend arms to shield and swipe and swat and fight for leverage right off the snap are guys who really catch my eye, but like you said you just don’t see enough of those things in college, it’s like the need to play that way comes so infrequently and it’s just weird lol
that being said - maybe the 2 best releasers in the NFL hardly use their hands at all and 1 of them frequently puts his body in an upright position...
Davante Adams and Tyreek Hill win entirely with footwork and explosion
but yeah - im really worried about ja'marr chase vs press
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Fair enough, most players just aren’t able to run and release against press while exposing their chest though lol, although I did comp Justin Jefferson to davante Adams pretty hardcore last year for this exact reason, his footwork to release was and is special, and I got blasted by a few for said comp lol.
that's fair, Adams and Hill are exceptional at what they do - Adams' footwork is so ridiculous that CBs will open up on instinct even though they know what he's going to do and Tyreek just has a special and rare ability to accelerate decelerate and explode
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
No I know it’s fair lol, it’s bold to comp a receiver that many considered “borderline first” to a guy who’s arguably been the best receiver in the league for the past 3 years, still stand by it though
Dom McRaven
Hall of Famer
I'm convinced that Tyreek Hill has the nitrous oxide boost that you would see in a car minus the flames from the exhaust.
Given we just brought in Tee Martin as our WR coach a lot have talked about Amari Rodgers (his son) and his fit here
but I just got around to watching more Josh Palmer (who he was just coaching at Tennessee) tape and he makes a ton of sense
Vertical outside receiver with a big frame and large wingspan who has the athleticism to win vertically - shows some promise with his route-running process too (which bodes well for our new WR coach) - there's some more refinement to be had but there's some nice nuance through all stages of his routes
but I just got around to watching more Josh Palmer (who he was just coaching at Tennessee) tape and he makes a ton of sense
Vertical outside receiver with a big frame and large wingspan who has the athleticism to win vertically - shows some promise with his route-running process too (which bodes well for our new WR coach) - there's some more refinement to be had but there's some nice nuance through all stages of his routes
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Josh Palmer is a guy I’ve heard a lot about and I really need to check him out
he had a really nice game against patrick surtain
I think i was overly harsh on my first go-around on Terrace Marshall - he was probably hard done by because i watched him straight after some of the elite guys in the class
was also re-evaluating a little bit how i think about press in terms of evaluating - obviously it's still important and it tells me a lot but it's worth pointing out that there's not a ton of press corners in the league and not a ton of teams that even ask their corners to play much press - guys aren't gonna be facing 70 snaps of press a game
with Marshall i still worry about how he plays through contact the whole way through the route but it helped to watch more tape without having bateman and chase and smith and waddle in my head while i was watching
was also re-evaluating a little bit how i think about press in terms of evaluating - obviously it's still important and it tells me a lot but it's worth pointing out that there's not a ton of press corners in the league and not a ton of teams that even ask their corners to play much press - guys aren't gonna be facing 70 snaps of press a game
with Marshall i still worry about how he plays through contact the whole way through the route but it helped to watch more tape without having bateman and chase and smith and waddle in my head while i was watching
Dom McRaven
Hall of Famer
Thoughts?
i've got a 4th round grade on him
Nice length, smooth athlete, has some nice foot quickness for his size - shows some nice route-running processes (keeps himself free off the release, purposeful with his stems - eats up cushions and challenges the corner's leverage, and pretty efficient with his breaks) - pretty good fighting through contact through the route which is a good sign - nice hands and comfortable extending and hands-catching outside of his frame and using his length
awful QB play since Lamar left and he was forced into a ton of contested situations and was very successful with his body adjustments, ball-tracking etc.
not an dynamic athlete with a ton of twitch and he doesn't always secure the ball well (lets the CB back into the play with a chance to break it up) - and he doesn't always maintain separation - some technical stuff that would need fixing (as well as expanding the route tree)
overall i like him and he obviously has the added charm of having played with Lamar at Louisville - but for me he's an early(ish) day 3 guy
I've come completely 180 on Ja'Marr Chase lol - i watched him too close to when watching Davante Adams and Tyreek Hill were cooking people at the LoS in the playoffs and his lack of refinement on tape absolutely killed my grade on him (had like 2 paragraphs in my notes on him vs press despite him winning most of his reps) - that's why i periodically go back to players's grades and notes to review (this is the 1st year where i've actually consolidated all my notes into 1 document which i might share at some point if people are interested like i normally do with my board and rankings etc.)
idk where he'll end up in the end - and it'll probably change a million times between now and the end of april with all 4 of the top 4 guys at number 1 at least one more time each
idk where he'll end up in the end - and it'll probably change a million times between now and the end of april with all 4 of the top 4 guys at number 1 at least one more time each
If we're looking at a mid-late round swing on a raw WR with a ton of physical talent but many things to work on, I'm coming around on Tamorrion Terry. Had a pretty lackluster season in 2020 but had some real shining moments in 2019. Would love to see our new coaches work with him to see what they can do. I always like guys who manage to produce with shoddy talent all around them, which has been FSU's story for the last few years.
that 2019 offence was horrible to watch lol - that OL was probably the worst unit i've ever seen and 2020 was only slightly better
Terry's movement skills at that size are just unfair - think he's fairly raw still - and there's moments where i wonder if he really understands the coverage in front of him or if he actually has a plan for his route - but other times he flashes especially on vertical based routes with his use of jab steps and his ability to cut at speed and then the way he uses his hands at the top of those vertical routes
not the biggest fan of how often he lets the ball get into his body but then he'll make a crazy contested grab while being pole-axed from 3 sides...
just think he's had stymied development by being in about 3 different systems during college and probably poor and inconsistent coaching - we've never been a good team for developing WRs but you have to hope that changes with Tee Martin and Dubb but it's hard not to worry about taking a rawer prospect
The last point is really what has me liking this option. Want to see what the new dudes can do with a raw guy.
well it would certainly be one way for those 2 to become instant mythical figures within the ravens fandom - who every year will be held up as "should replace Roman" or even "should replace Harbs"