airconteka
MVP
That was my point, old mate was using a stat that is irrelevant to his role. We need to invest in our front 7 big time at least the next 2 off seasons
-
Welcome to PurpleFlock! Be sure to sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.
Next Up: vs Bengals
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
That was my point, old mate was using a stat that is irrelevant to his role. We need to invest in our front 7 big time at least the next 2 off seasons
idk about this bwill situation.. to say he isnt suppose to get sacks is kinda debatable. With the money we pay him one would assume that he gets sacks yet he doesnt apply any pressure at all.. its not like he some third string Dlineman.
Every position is versatile nowadays. Box safties should know how to cover. Man cbs should know how to play zone. Do you all think that if we had the chance to, we would do it all over again?
Every position is versatile nowadays. Box safties should know how to cover. Man cbs should know how to play zone. Do you all think that if we had the chance to, we would do it all over again?
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
I think this is a good game to see what we've got in Jaleel Scott. Could be legitimately nothing, but why not look. It's actually almost impossible that he could be worse than Chris Moore or Seth Roberts. Moore has 0 catches this year and was detrimental on his one opportunity. Robert's has 7 catches for 83 yards through 5 games. I think it might be time to just see what we've got there.
RL52TheGreatest
Ravens Ring of Honor
Let's see if the coaching staff sees it that way. Moore will probably be active again just because he plays ST and Roberts is supposedly a good run blocker when he's out there (I really don't pay attention to how WRs block so I can't confirm nor deny this). Scott has more receiving potential than both of them, but apparently the coaching staff values other things more right now.
I do believe we wouldn't give him that big contract if we had it to do all over again. Not sure where I read that, but believe it was sometime this past offseason .
My take is that this is a question of how our defense is constructed but also a very fair criticism of scouting. I don’t put this on coaching per se because guys we were able to develop not named Za’darius Smith did not perform as well on other teams. However, if you’re going to construct a defense where consistent rush has to come from the edges and from the 5 tech, it’s an abomination that we’re trotting out the Tyus Bowsers and the Tim Williams’ of the world.
BWill and to lesser extent Michael Pierce are problems not because they’re not doing their jobs well, but because what they do is discounted by the fact that the guys next to them can’t do theirs. That said, I think the attempt at Gerald McCoy telegraphs a change in philosophy in the middle of the DL (although the Daylon Mack pick counteracts that idea a bit). We’ll see what they do in the offseason. Until then, gotta go to war with the army we have.
Tank
Hall of Famer
All of the BWill debate is a moot point. Of course you need him there to do what he does, that's why he got paid, not to get sacks. If he's not able to play we see what happens, and it happens every time. He's also a team player that plays through injuries that may slow him at times, but he's still there if he can go. Much of this same convo went on when Haloti was asked to switch his role and be the run stuffer. Some just don't appreciate how important that role is to the entire defensive scheme.
Willbacker
Ravens Ring of Honor
I was wondering about Roberts and his blocking ability since I always notice him out there in our bigger formations.
SaltyDog
MVP
The difference between BWill and Ngata is that Ngata was equally good in run and pass. He could play anywhere along the D line. He was paid significantly better but he was arguably the best in the league during his prime. With BWill you definitely don’t want him in there on passing downs. I’m ok with that since he does his job as a run stopper. The question for me has always been is he worth the contract he got?
I think in general a lot of this comes down to investment - now we've put a lot of investment in day 2 picks into trying and creating outside pass rush but when was the last time (outside of CJ Mosley) we put a 1st round pick into our front 7
the answer is we havent since haloti ngata in 2006
other than CJ Mosley, the last 1st round pick we invested in the front 7 is retired - that's how long ago it is
now obviously that ignores the 2nd and 3rd rounders etc. but you're far less likely to find stars and flashy contributors in round 2/3 than round 1
but even so lets look at the day 2 picks in the front 7 over the last few years...
2019: Jaylon Ferguson (too early to tell)
2017: Tyus Bowser, Chris Wormley (not a pass rusher), Tim Williams (been cut)
2016: Kamalei Correa (traded for a 6th round pick), Bronson Kaufusi (been cut)
2015: Carl Davis (not a pass rusher and also cut)
2014: CJ Mosley, Timmy Jernigan (traded for equivalent of 3rd round pick)
2013: Arthur Brown (was cut), Brandon Williams (not a pass rusher)
we've always said historically that we're bad at evaluating wide receivers but over the past few offseasons ive advocated that maybe its just that we've not taken enough shots with enough high picks...
with regards to pass rushers and impact front 7 players it looks like we might be pretty bad as a team at evaluating talent at these positions
yes in recent years we've found some diamonds in day 3... Matt Judon, Zadarius Smith, Pernell Mcphee, Brent Urban but its not sustainable to expect day 3 picks to consistently be difference makers
we need to invest capital into the front 7 but before that we probably need some self-evaluation to go on with regards to what we look for in our front 7 players (especially edge rushers)
the answer is we havent since haloti ngata in 2006
other than CJ Mosley, the last 1st round pick we invested in the front 7 is retired - that's how long ago it is
now obviously that ignores the 2nd and 3rd rounders etc. but you're far less likely to find stars and flashy contributors in round 2/3 than round 1
but even so lets look at the day 2 picks in the front 7 over the last few years...
2019: Jaylon Ferguson (too early to tell)
2017: Tyus Bowser, Chris Wormley (not a pass rusher), Tim Williams (been cut)
2016: Kamalei Correa (traded for a 6th round pick), Bronson Kaufusi (been cut)
2015: Carl Davis (not a pass rusher and also cut)
2014: CJ Mosley, Timmy Jernigan (traded for equivalent of 3rd round pick)
2013: Arthur Brown (was cut), Brandon Williams (not a pass rusher)
we've always said historically that we're bad at evaluating wide receivers but over the past few offseasons ive advocated that maybe its just that we've not taken enough shots with enough high picks...
with regards to pass rushers and impact front 7 players it looks like we might be pretty bad as a team at evaluating talent at these positions
yes in recent years we've found some diamonds in day 3... Matt Judon, Zadarius Smith, Pernell Mcphee, Brent Urban but its not sustainable to expect day 3 picks to consistently be difference makers
we need to invest capital into the front 7 but before that we probably need some self-evaluation to go on with regards to what we look for in our front 7 players (especially edge rushers)
Tank
Hall of Famer
Haloti played different positions in his time in Baltimore and was much more visibly valuable prior to moving to NT. People ragged on him his last couple of years but you saw what happened to the D as soon as injury forced him out of the SB.
And there's really no equating BWill's worth to $. At the time his contract was signed it was market price for a top run stopping NT. It is what it is. He's been relatively durable missing very little time and he does his job.
Last edited:
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Perhaps a coincidence and it's mostly due to players, but there is a noticeable drop in play quality of our D line since passing of Clarence Brooks.
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Oh, great...
Sandtown
Pro Bowler
I think what's really hurting The Ravens is young players not knowing what to do during the off season. Micheal Pierce comes to training camp overweight, Tim Williams comes to training camp with less muscle on his frame like he about to play wide receiver, and Willie Henry came to training camp looking like he may have loss too much weight. This probably why coaches wish training camp was longer because it's clear that these young guys can't handle a full off season with out coaches getting on their case about how to take care of their bodies and stay in shape.
Sami84
Ravens Ring of Honor
we knew about andrews and brown. why would they need to practice when they could heal? makes no sense. ET is a vet day. Likely the same with Carr and Yanda. Powers doesn't play. Ingram might be a vet day off also. The only two which are outliers are canady and Peanut.
at this point, practice is overrated anyway. Resting when having a niggling injury isnt.
D1City55
Pro Bowler
Hes doing exactly what he's paid to do. If he was an dominant pass rusher he would be getting paid much more then what hes making now.
Given the names I can assume a lot of those are veteran days off or precautionary especially considering that most of those names finished the game
D1City55
Pro Bowler
Exactly, he was moved around constantly and was very versatile vs BWill whos a traditional nose tackle. Ngata lined up everywhere.
was always worried about that - never really liked joe cullen but have never had a reason to dislike him as a coach - but i was never sold on him
i think you may be right
tbf to him the resources at that position have been pretty scarce in a couple of ways but also he's got incredible athletes at the position like pierce and williams who he's never helped progress in a meaningful way - they have been the same players (and its more egregious with pierce because he's still on his rookie deal) for at least the last year or 2 which doesnt say much in terms of their development...
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
I was calling for Karl Dunbar after Cullen's first year in the job. Unfortunately, he got poached from Alabama by Steelers.