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The 2020 Offseason Thread

rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
nah - there's always going to be a net loss in terms of value as soon as any time passes because the years of control are fewer - the only way you get the same value back on any draft pick like that is if they're good enough that you should be keeping them in the first place

and let's be realistic, day 3 picks are even more of a lottery than picks made in the first 2 days - that's why its important to have as many of them as you can get if you cant parlay them into day 2 picks somehow

but often day 3 picks just wont work out and if you can get a day 3 pick back for them after only a year that's a pretty good salvage job
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I was referencing the same trade you were, which was Vedvik. We got a 5th round pick for a guy we signed as an UDFA 12 months prior, and who never kicked in a real game for us. Those deals are extremely rare.

But yes, I agree. Just pointing out why the expectation of even a fifth round pick, to me, isn't realistic.

I also point to the idea that its pretty difficult, or impossible, to identify a Ravens 7th round pick who's really ever amounted to even reasonable depth, which means the pick itself is likely to be a waste if kept. And while you could argue its "draft trade capital", I'd also like to see examples of trade deals, whether on draft day or otherwise, falling apart because one team was unwilling to give up a 7th round pick in addition to whatever else they were giving up.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
rmcjacket23 said:
I was referencing the same trade you were, which was Vedvik. We got a 5th round pick for a guy we signed as an UDFA 12 months prior, and who never kicked in a real game for us. Those deals are extremely rare.

But yes, I agree. Just pointing out why the expectation of even a fifth round pick, to me, isn't realistic.

I also point to the idea that its pretty difficult, or impossible, to identify a Ravens 7th round pick who's really ever amounted to even reasonable depth, which means the pick itself is likely to be a waste if kept. And while you could argue its "draft trade capital", I'd also like to see examples of trade deals, whether on draft day or otherwise, falling apart because one team was unwilling to give up a 7th round pick in addition to whatever else they were giving up.
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i think also its pretty clear that the ravens havent valued 7th round picks at all in recent years
the difference in value to the ravens of a 5th rounder (or even a 6th rounder) over a 7th rounder is really not proportional

but to your point about 7th rounders, the best one we've made may well have been michael campanaro which isnt saying much

but the 6th round is a different kettle of fish:

2018: Bozeman, Deshon Elliott (and we liked Greg Senat too albeit not enough not to let him go through waivers)
2017: Chuck Clark
2016: Maurice Canady (not a star but made contributions to this team - albeit will be forever remembered for his part in 4th and 9)
2015: Darren Waller - obviously not a star here but got a 2nd contract with the Raiders
2014: Ryan Jensen
2011: Tyrod Taylor

that's a pretty decent group to come out of the 6th round in a single decade
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Simba said:
Daka the newest addition to a long line of hyped UDFAs that are cut in the first round to never be seen again. Matt Furstenburg sits somewhere smiling.
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when we brought them in i thought chauncey rivers had the better shot but daka got all the hype from the beat guys (and adjacent ravens journos) so i did wonder but it was probably just him being the local kid in hindsight (this always seems to happen with the local guys
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
rossihunter2 said:
when we brought them in i thought chauncey rivers had the better shot but daka got all the hype from the beat guys (and adjacent ravens journos) so i did wonder but it was probably just him being the local kid in hindsight (this always seems to happen with the local guys
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Twas the sack numbers and athleticism as well. 16.5 sacks always looks good and you think you have a player, but gotta realize that was done at JMU and the NFL is an entirely different animal from what he faced in college.
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
rossihunter2 said:


Adams the front-runner
suggests to me its even more likely that we got with only 2 TEs
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More not reporting reports as well. Using the word 'if' and then putting true in quotes... not looking good for any of them. Zrebiec certainly isnt the only one doing this either. Stack up the PS and call one up when needed.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Simba said:
More not reporting reports as well. Using the word 'if' and then putting true in quotes... not looking good for any of them. Zrebiec certainly isnt the only one doing this either. Stack up the PS and call one up when needed.
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aaron kasinitz's projection for the final 53 only has 2 "true" TEs on it - seems more and more like the writing's on the wall at that spot

which opens up a roster spot somewhere...
could be broderick washington but it also could be that we go 6 deep at S with the extra special teamer

basically this kind of comes down to how many of the last roster spots on the 53 are reserved for special teams
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
i think also its pretty clear that the ravens havent valued 7th round picks at all in recent years
the difference in value to the ravens of a 5th rounder (or even a 6th rounder) over a 7th rounder is really not proportional

but to your point about 7th rounders, the best one we've made may well have been michael campanaro which isnt saying much

but the 6th round is a different kettle of fish:

2018: Bozeman, Deshon Elliott (and we liked Greg Senat too albeit not enough not to let him go through waivers)
2017: Chuck Clark
2016: Maurice Canady (not a star but made contributions to this team - albeit will be forever remembered for his part in 4th and 9)
2015: Darren Waller - obviously not a star here but got a 2nd contract with the Raiders
2014: Ryan Jensen
2011: Tyrod Taylor

that's a pretty decent group to come out of the 6th round in a single decade
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decent? thats flat out impressive. thats 3 guys who went on to get starter level contracts and played starter snaps for multiple seasons at a respectable level or better, one guy who got a modest contract but is taking not only starter snaps but is in year 2 of being the defensive captain for a top 3 defense, a guy who is replacing a future hall of fame safety and not one coach seems the least bit concerned, and the starting LG for the greatest rushing attack the leagues ever seen.

ask any fan of any team if theyd take that over their teams 6th round track record, youll get a resounding yes.
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
Something else that I've seen in recent days is some "hype" for Aaron Adeoye. Not 53 man roster hype but seems like he quietly put together another good camp and could be next man up at pass rusher from the PS. I know there were numerous conversations around promoting him at times last year. He's on the older side which is why I never had much consideration for him but seems like he might have outplayed all of the UDFAs.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
whos the guy wearing the purple #2 jersey thats popped up in a bunch of camp videos? not tyler huntley, its not a qb jersey, its a #2 ravens home jersey and ive never been able to make out the name
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
JoeyFlex5 said:
decent? thats flat out impressive. thats 3 guys who went on to get starter level contracts and played starter snaps for multiple seasons at a respectable level or better, one guy who got a modest contract but is taking not only starter snaps but is in year 2 of being the defensive captain for a top 3 defense, a guy who is replacing a future hall of fame safety and not one coach seems the least bit concerned, and the starting LG for the greatest rushing attack the leagues ever seen.

ask any fan of any team if theyd take that over their teams 6th round track record, youll get a resounding yes.
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oh 100% - the consistency is outrageous in that round for sure and obviously it looks like proche has a chance to be a contributor too

i only missed out 6 6th round picks from this decade - let's say we include greg senat and darren waller in this list (because he didnt contribute for us) we're still looking at an almost 50% hit rate in the 6th round which is as good as the league average on day 1 and 2 (obviously the highs arent as ecstatic)

the fact that Tyrod Taylor is one of the least notable guys on the list despite backing up for the Ravens for his entire contract and going onto start in week 1 for 3 different organisations in his post-raven career is pretty impressive
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Simba said:
Something else that I've seen in recent days is some "hype" for Aaron Adeoye. Not 53 man roster hype but seems like he quietly put together another good camp and could be next man up at pass rusher from the PS. I know there were numerous conversations around promoting him at times last year. He's on the older side which is why I never had much consideration for him but seems like he might have outplayed all of the UDFAs.
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he may do well enough to land on the PS but he's not someone i ever expect to be elevated let alone activated or play a snap
 
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