The Rookies, The Bad and the Browns

[rossihunter2]

Idk what ATS means but this sounds like a ridiculous feat

ample time and space - for reference baker had that on over 40% of his snaps despite the ravens blitzing

basically in a simplistic sense baker had time to throw and lamar didnt

ravens according to that metric lost both trenches and yet still absolutely whooped the browns

 

[JoeyFlex5]

too early to say based on one or 2 plays he didnt make (one where if he did what charles davis said he should do he would have been short of the goal-line

he's not a sharp accelerator in and out of his breaks right now from what i can see but that's not necessarily something he needs to do - i think there's probably still some chemistry issues with lamar just in terms of timing and lamar understanding how boykin gets in and out of his breaks

but too early to say one way or the other based on this one game (especially as we still dont have any all-22 yet - this is getting ridiculous btw that it's still not been released)

That goal line pass is a 2 way fault, Boykin isn’t just not accelerating out of his breaks, he looks hesitant to come out of his breaks. The troubling one is the one where he dove to the ground for the catch on the skinny post and Lamar was getting on him about it, looked like he said something along the lines of “its wide open just go” because it was in fact wide open but before the break Boykin was chopping it up and looked noncommittal and ended up short of catching it in stride, Lamar put the ball where it should’ve been on this one and Boykin clearly wasn’t sure what to do, if he fires out of that break and catches that in stride then he could’ve lowered the shoulder and split the defenders for rather large catch and run.

in one instance it’s not a big deal, but this was a problem last year, and now it’s shown up twice in week 1.

really it just makes me think what could this offense be if Boykin could just cut that shit out, like if he snaps out of it and gets comfortable and confident, man he could be really good, we see the flashes, he’s just stuck in his own head it seems

 

[JoeyFlex5]

ample time and space - for reference baker had that on over 40% of his snaps despite the ravens blitzing

basically in a simplistic sense baker had time to throw and lamar didnt

ravens according to that metric lost both trenches and yet still absolutely whooped the browns

That’s worrying that our trenches graded so poorly... I think the browns trenches on both sides are extremely underrated, but still, were supposed to be the team that has those things, we made major acquisitions for the DL and were supposed to be the #1 rush team...

hopefully skura can progress from his injury and phillips gets acclimated quickly.

 

[RavensMania]

ample time and space - for reference baker had that on over 40% of his snaps despite the ravens blitzing

basically in a simplistic sense baker had time to throw and lamar didnt

ravens according to that metric lost both trenches and yet still absolutely whooped the browns

Not a fan of Cowherd, but he's admitted to being wrong about Lamar Jackson for a while now and he's now currently ripping into others who are still waiting to see if it works out. Cowherd is saying we are a machine.

 

[rossihunter2]

for anyone who wasnt clear that we would be evolving this offence in this sort of direction - here's the new blueprint - spread it out and force defences to react to us

 

[JoeyFlex5]

for anyone who wasnt clear that we would be evolving this offence in this sort of direction - here's the new blueprint - spread it out and force defences to react to us

Duvernay is gonna be an absolute machine if we execute this new style of offense

 

[rossihunter2]

That goal line pass is a 2 way fault, Boykin isn’t just not accelerating out of his breaks, he looks hesitant to come out of his breaks. The troubling one is the one where he dove to the ground for the catch on the skinny post and Lamar was getting on him about it, looked like he said something along the lines of “its wide open just go” because it was in fact wide open but before the break Boykin was chopping it up and looked noncommittal and ended up short of catching it in stride, Lamar put the ball where it should’ve been on this one and Boykin clearly wasn’t sure what to do, if he fires out of that break and catches that in stride then he could’ve lowered the shoulder and split the defenders for rather large catch and run.

in one instance it’s not a big deal, but this was a problem last year, and now it’s shown up twice in week 1.

really it just makes me think what could this offense be if Boykin could just cut that shit out, like if he snaps out of it and gets comfortable and confident, man he could be really good, we see the flashes, he’s just stuck in his own head it seems

i dont remember the skinny post catch at all lol but ill take your word for it on that one (couldnt find it after a quick look through the game)

but the goal-line one i really dont think is an issue with hesitation at all

 

[rossihunter2]

Duvernay is gonna be an absolute machine if we execute this new style of offense

he looked so fast accelerating after that screen and did well on those kick returns

explosive athlete and if hollywood and andrews keep drawing the attention he's going to have so much space to work in

 

[UPennChem]

too early to say based on one or 2 plays he didnt make (one where if he did what charles davis said he should do he would have been short of the goal-line

he's not a sharp accelerator in and out of his breaks right now from what i can see but that's not necessarily something he needs to do - i think there's probably still some chemistry issues with lamar just in terms of timing and lamar understanding how boykin gets in and out of his breaks

but too early to say one way or the other based on this one game (especially as we still dont have any all-22 yet - this is getting ridiculous btw that it's still not been released)

You're right jt is ridiculous. I have hope for him. Also as Joey was saying if this guy can get some confidence he could be scary. I'm pulling for him and also believe he'll do it eventually. Just not really understanding a lack of confidence on this team. I can understand it if you're on the Bengals or Jaguars maybe, but this team is full of unity, talent, good coaches, winning mentality.

 

[rossihunter2]

You're right jt is ridiculous. I have hope for him. Also as Joey was saying if this guy can get some confidence he could be scary. I'm pulling for him and also believe he'll do it eventually. Just not really understanding a lack of confidence on this team. I can understand it if you're on the Bengals or Jaguars maybe, but this team is full of unity, talent, good coaches, winning mentality.

but also lots of players were in preseason form making mistakes they wont in 3-4 weeks - there's no reason why boykin shouldnt be given the same leeway that we give some of the other guys

there were things that need improving from his game but he also had 3 catches for 37 yards (which was 4th in both receptions and yards on the team)

all-22 not out yet but i wonder if his role was pretty similar to last year also (so far) with him not being featured at all in the passing game and mostly just used to run off coverage - 2 of his 3 receptions i think came on plays where the play bad broken down - but this is pure conjecture because i havent seen the coaches film

 

[UPennChem]

but also lots of players were in preseason form making mistakes they wont in 3-4 weeks - there's no reason why boykin shouldnt be given the same leeway that we give some of the other guys

there were things that need improving from his game but he also had 3 catches for 37 yards (which was 4th in both receptions and yards on the team)

all-22 not out yet but i wonder if his role was pretty similar to last year also (so far) with him not being featured at all in the passing game and mostly just used to run off coverage - 2 of his 3 receptions i think came on plays where the play bad broken down - but this is pure conjecture because i havent seen the coaches film

Trust me there are probably few people willing Boykin to be great more than me. I like flex saw him in camp last year and have been hyped ever since. I'm just noting that I think out of all the receivers Lamar has played with since last year, I know that it's mostly the same group, Boykin is really the only one he's not quite got on the same page with. He from a personality perspective is reminding me of Perriman. He doesn't seem to have the same swagger that Marquise, Willie, Ingram, etc have, which may in his reduced role not be doing him a service

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Trust me there are probably few people willing Boykin to be great more than me. I like flex saw him in camp last year and have been hyped ever since. I'm just noting that I think out of all the receivers Lamar has played with since last year, I know that it's mostly the same group, Boykin is really the only one he's not quite got on the same page with. He from a personality perspective is reminding me of Perriman. He doesn't seem to have the same swagger that Marquise, Willie, Ingram, etc have, which may in his reduced role not be doing him a service

Hayden hurst had the same complex. He lacked the bravado that this new wave of players has and always felt like the odd man out. When Lamar raised a little hell with him I kinda felt bad for Boykin and I didn’t like seeing Lamar act like brady there. He’s surrounded by all this greatness and in your face swagger, and he’s clearly intimidated by it and doesn’t wanna make mistakes. Seems like a little bit of anxiety, or at least a fear of failure overpowering a desire for greatness.

 

[UPennChem]

Hayden hurst had the same complex. He lacked the bravado that this new wave of players has and always felt like the odd man out. When Lamar raised a little hell with him I kinda felt bad for Boykin and I didn’t like seeing Lamar act like brady there. He’s surrounded by all this greatness and in your face swagger, and he’s clearly intimidated by it and doesn’t wanna make mistakes. Seems like a little bit of anxiety, or at least a fear of failure overpowering a desire for greatness.

I think this is spot on. Honestly, this new Era Ravens is a completely different beast and for the foreseeable future, this team is gonna have a real offensive swagger. When we evaluate draft prospects going forward, I think we might need to try our best to pass on the Perriman/Hurst/Boykin type personalities. It just seems like they don't quite fit. And there's clearly a fit this team has. Earl Thomas totally shows it. He just shows it from the other side. He thought he was above the rest of everyone and the team rejected that. Interesting psychology of sports.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I think this is spot on. Honestly, this new Era Ravens is a completely different beast and for the foreseeable future, this team is gonna have a real offensive swagger. When we evaluate draft prospects going forward, I think we might need to try our best to pass on the Perriman/Hurst/Boykin type personalities. It just seems like they don't quite fit. And there's clearly a fit this team has. Earl Thomas totally shows it. He just shows it from the other side. He thought he was above the rest of everyone and the team rejected that. Interesting psychology of sports.

Anthony Miller would’ve been our fucking guy

 

[UPennChem]

Anthony Miller would’ve been our fucking guy

Really wanted him a couple of years ago.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Really wanted him a couple of years ago.

Same, Everyone here knows he was my A1 prospect, I had him and Ridley neck and neck but I gave the edge to miller cuz he was that Mighty Mouse type that I’ve always been fond of. he put on a show in week 1 too, this might be his breakout year.

 

[UPennChem]

Same, Everyone here knows he was my A1 prospect, I had him and Ridley neck and neck but I gave the edge to miller cuz he was that Mighty Mouse type that I’ve always been fond of. he put on a show in week 1 too, this might be his breakout year.

He certainly seems primed for it.

 

[organizedchaos21]

What are our thoughts on Boykins performance. My feeling is that he definitely played a lot and he factored in a couple of times, but I feel like he's still not on the same page as Lamar. With that being said, do we think this is in his head? If so, if he can put it together, I think he'll be a really good player. Unfortunately as a side note, Chase Claypool looks to be the better of the two to my eye. Personalities also appear to be entirely different

i dont remember the skinny post catch at all lol but ill take your word for it on that one (couldnt find it after a quick look through the game)

but the goal-line one i really dont think is an issue with hesitation at all

Boykin definitely played a lot. He led WRs in snaps (40, barely ahead of Snead's 38). It's clear Roman is treating both him and Brown as the top WRs (both played on every drive except RG3's).

The skinny post catch came at (Q4, 08:30). Am I allowed to post GIFs? I have one of that play (and Boykin's other catches).

all-22 not out yet but i wonder if his role was pretty similar to last year also (so far) with him not being featured at all in the passing game and mostly just used to run off coverage - 2 of his 3 receptions i think came on plays where the play bad broken down - but this is pure conjecture because i havent seen the coaches film

I have the same reservations regarding conclusions prior to seeing the all-22. That said, I think what I saw on was Boykin being slightly more involved than in the past. His 4 targets:

• (Q2, 07:24) Boykin is backside of 3x1, runs a drag. Probably option 3, but Lamar hits him for (11+14).
  
• (Q2, 00:12) Boykin is backside of 3x1, runs an out. Lamar never looks anywhere else. Route isn't great, throw isn't great, incomplete.
• (Q4, 14:20) Boykin goes in jet motion (by my charting, Boykin was in motion on 3 dropbacks last season total). He stays underneath in the flat as a safety valve, and Lamar checks down to him for (-3+5).
• (Q4, 08:30) Boykin is backside of 3x2, runs a slant. Hard to tell from broadcast, but I don't see Lamar's head move, so he might be the top option. Lamar hits Boykin for (8+2), but Boykin unnecessarily goes down to make the catch, giving up significant YAC (I don't think he's getting the first down on 3rd & 27, but it continues a trend of Boykin going to the ground to secure the catch and giving up yards).

There are other signs for me as well. The Ravens called run plays (scrambles excluded) on 234 (51%) of Boykin's 460 "real" snaps in 2019 ("real" excludes clock plays, plays nullified by penalty, and fumbled snaps/meshes). On Sunday, the Ravens called runs on only 14 (35%) of Boykin's 40 "real" snaps. As a team, the Ravens called slightly fewer runs (27/57, 47%) on Sunday than they typically did in 2019 (51%), but imo, it's clear that they want Boykin on the field when passing in 2020, something that was not true in 2019.

I still expect it to be tough for him to amass a high number of targets. This offense should run through Andrews and Brown first. If Boykin can build himself into a solid third option who gets open when those two are covered (as he did on the first target above), that would bode very well for the offense as a whole.

 

[UPennChem]

Boykin definitely played a lot. He led WRs in snaps (40, barely ahead of Snead's 38). It's clear Roman is treating both him and Brown as the top WRs (both played on every drive except RG3's).

The skinny post catch came at (Q4, 08:30). Am I allowed to post GIFs? I have one of that play (and Boykin's other catches).



I have the same reservations regarding conclusions prior to seeing the all-22. That said, I think what I saw on was Boykin being slightly more involved than in the past. His 4 targets:

• (Q2, 07:24) Boykin is backside of 3x1, runs a drag. Probably option 3, but Lamar hits him for (11+14).
  
• (Q2, 00:12) Boykin is backside of 3x1, runs an out. Lamar never looks anywhere else. Route isn't great, throw isn't great, incomplete.
• (Q4, 14:20) Boykin goes in jet motion (by my charting, Boykin was in motion on 3 dropbacks last season total). He stays underneath in the flat as a safety valve, and Lamar checks down to him for (-3+5).
• (Q4, 08:30) Boykin is backside of 3x2, runs a slant. Hard to tell from broadcast, but I don't see Lamar's head move, so he might be the top option. Lamar hits Boykin for (8+2), but Boykin unnecessarily goes down to make the catch, giving up significant YAC (I don't think he's getting the first down on 3rd & 27, but it continues a trend of Boykin going to the ground to secure the catch and giving up yards).

There are other signs for me as well. The Ravens called run plays (scrambles excluded) on 234 (51%) of Boykin's 460 "real" snaps in 2019 ("real" excludes clock plays, plays nullified by penalty, and fumbled snaps/meshes). On Sunday, the Ravens called runs on only 14 (35%) of Boykin's 40 "real" snaps. As a team, the Ravens called slightly fewer runs (27/57, 47%) on Sunday than they typically did in 2019 (51%), but imo, it's clear that they want Boykin on the field when passing in 2020, something that was not true in 2019.

I still expect it to be tough for him to amass a high number of targets. This offense should run through Andrews and Brown first. If Boykin can build himself into a solid third option who gets open when those two are covered (as he did on the first target above), that would bode very well for the offense as a whole.

Thanks for Thst awesome analysis!!! I really agree with your last sentiment there. I am not asking or even wanting Boykin to be a top option. We really already have 2 of those. If he can just carve out a niche for himself and be in the 650 yards range I think that will do wonders for us.

 

[rossihunter2]

Boykin definitely played a lot. He led WRs in snaps (40, barely ahead of Snead's 38). It's clear Roman is treating both him and Brown as the top WRs (both played on every drive except RG3's).

The skinny post catch came at (Q4, 08:30). Am I allowed to post GIFs? I have one of that play (and Boykin's other catches).



I have the same reservations regarding conclusions prior to seeing the all-22. That said, I think what I saw on was Boykin being slightly more involved than in the past. His 4 targets:

• (Q2, 07:24) Boykin is backside of 3x1, runs a drag. Probably option 3, but Lamar hits him for (11+14).
  
• (Q2, 00:12) Boykin is backside of 3x1, runs an out. Lamar never looks anywhere else. Route isn't great, throw isn't great, incomplete.
• (Q4, 14:20) Boykin goes in jet motion (by my charting, Boykin was in motion on 3 dropbacks last season total). He stays underneath in the flat as a safety valve, and Lamar checks down to him for (-3+5).
• (Q4, 08:30) Boykin is backside of 3x2, runs a slant. Hard to tell from broadcast, but I don't see Lamar's head move, so he might be the top option. Lamar hits Boykin for (8+2), but Boykin unnecessarily goes down to make the catch, giving up significant YAC (I don't think he's getting the first down on 3rd & 27, but it continues a trend of Boykin going to the ground to secure the catch and giving up yards).

There are other signs for me as well. The Ravens called run plays (scrambles excluded) on 234 (51%) of Boykin's 460 "real" snaps in 2019 ("real" excludes clock plays, plays nullified by penalty, and fumbled snaps/meshes). On Sunday, the Ravens called runs on only 14 (35%) of Boykin's 40 "real" snaps. As a team, the Ravens called slightly fewer runs (27/57, 47%) on Sunday than they typically did in 2019 (51%), but imo, it's clear that they want Boykin on the field when passing in 2020, something that was not true in 2019.

I still expect it to be tough for him to amass a high number of targets. This offense should run through Andrews and Brown first. If Boykin can build himself into a solid third option who gets open when those two are covered (as he did on the first target above), that would bode very well for the offense as a whole.

thanks for the time markers - managed to find the play - yeah its a pretty inconsequential play given the down and distance - to me it seems not that he's slow out of his break but that he sort of hesitated after he made the break as if he wasnt confident that he'd actually run the right route and it caused him to stop and be slightly out of position when lamar threw - felt like he didnt commit to the route he'd just run

and yes you're allowed to post gifs if you want to