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Dennis Pitta - Designed Offense is 1 Read and Check Down

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I saw a stat once that Joe has the seventh most time in the league to throw on average, but he also has one of the lowest amounts of time with the ball in his hand. What this tells me is that Joe, for what ever reason, is too quick to dump it off and won't let plays develop the way he should.

i didnt see the time in the pocket stat but joe has taken the 5th/7th shortest time to throw in the league - now whether that's pressure or quick dumpoffs etc. im not sure - and obviously more mobile qbs are going to take longer to throw on avg anyway because they run around for more time more often... apparently the highest "non-mobile" qb in terms of time taken to throw is derek carr...
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
i didnt see the time in the pocket stat but joe has taken the 5th/7th shortest time to throw in the league - now whether that's pressure or quick dumpoffs etc. im not sure - and obviously more mobile qbs are going to take longer to throw on avg anyway because they run around for more time more often... apparently the highest "non-mobile" qb in terms of time taken to throw is derek carr...
I saw the time in the pocket stat after like week 5 and these are obviously fluid stats, so take it for what you will.

I do, however, think Flacco would have morr time than he allows for on most plays if he gave it a chance.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I saw the time in the pocket stat after like week 5 and these are obviously fluid stats, so take it for what you will.

I do, however, think Flacco would have morr time than he allows for on most plays if he gave it a chance.

yeah its a pretty nebulous stat - its very much a supportive stat for whatever you see on film rather than a stat that's in and of itself indicative of a particular trend...

but you're right that it suggests that either flacco is getting pressure in his face a lot (doesnt really pass the eye test that much) or he's getting the ball out too quickly (for whatever reasons: be they by design, jitters of the rush, not reading the field etc.)
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
yeah its a pretty nebulous stat - its very much a supportive stat for whatever you see on film rather than a stat that's in and of itself indicative of a particular trend...

but you're right that it suggests that either flacco is getting pressure in his face a lot (doesnt really pass the eye test that much) or he's getting the ball out too quickly (for whatever reasons: be they by design, jitters of the rush, not reading the field etc.)
With the way Marty and Harbaugh talk about wanting to get the offense and deep passing game going, I'd say jitters.
 

K-Dog

MVP
I saw a stat once that Joe has the seventh most time in the league to throw on average, but he also has one of the lowest amounts of time with the ball in his hand. What this tells me is that Joe, for what ever reason, is too quick to dump it off and won't let plays develop the way he should.

His life is in danger?
He wants to avoid the sack?

No, that doesn't account for the full 43% ( 42.7 ) but that has to be a good portion of it.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
His life is in danger?
He wants to avoid the sack?

No, that doesn't account for the full 43% ( 42.7 ) but that has to be a good portion of it.
I have no argument that a dump off is needed at times. Better to gain a yard or two than to lose five from a sack.

But as you said, that doesn't account for all of it.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Deep passing game could be 8 yards

it does piss me off that we have literally no intermediate passing game at all - nor any passing game up the seams or the middle of the field in general - i just want some 12-15 yard type completions that dont come on 3rd and really long (oh who am i kidding we're not getting that many yards on 3rd and long whatever the distance to the line to gain)
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
it does piss me off that we have literally no intermediate passing game at all - nor any passing game up the seams or the middle of the field in general - i just want some 12-15 yard type completions that dont come on 3rd and really long (oh who am i kidding we're not getting that many yards on 3rd and long whatever the distance to the line to gain)
Yeah, it’s actually shocking to see a completion in the middle of the field. I can’t wait for Woodhead to come back
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Yeah, it’s actually shocking to see a completion in the middle of the field. I can’t wait for Woodhead to come back

like im sometimes genuinely surprised when we get a 8-12 yard pass to maclin for a first down because i just havent seen one for ages - the ravens offence is slowly untraining my brain to see the potential routes and gaps in coverage - the ravens offence is so bad that its making a (relative) football novice stupider
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
like im sometimes genuinely surprised when we get a 8-12 yard pass to maclin for a first down because i just havent seen one for ages - the ravens offence is slowly untraining my brain to see the potential routes and gaps in coverage - the ravens offence is so bad that its making a (relative) football novice stupider
Although I’m not on the fire Harbaugh train, I feel if he wants to keep Marty that would be grounds for dismissal
 

Serrell Tuggs

Practice Squad
I think the reason Joe throws check downs so quickly is that he's playing scared. I have no stats to back it up but he looks flustered as soon as pressure begins to develop and takes off, throws it away or, at best, looks for the checkdown.

Can anyone remember the last time Joe completed a pass when he knew a hit was coming? Something you see every other QB in the league do.
 

Tru11

Practice Squad
Flacco has also said he wants to open up the offense. They all say it but it doesnt happen.

he should just audible and change routes tbh.

who gives a F what marty feels.

its easier to get rid of marty then it is to get rid of flacco.

might as well let him do his thing and see if he has a future here or if we need to draft a QB early .
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
If you want my honest to god opinion of what the problem is...

Well.. Everything. Something is clearly off with Joe, and it's mental. The scheme... Well to put it frankly it sucks. Even if Pitta exaggerated his claim(I personally think Harbaugh is being a politician again and is just trying to cover his ass. Again, put yourself in his position, you'd probably say the same thing. Not that I think what Pitta said is totally true, but even going back to last year.. There is tangible evidence to back up his claim. Particularly with how we use the TEs. Pitta would know, he was in Watson's position last year).

Flacco isn't to absolve from blame either. He's certainly part of the problem. He has the power to audible out of plays that Marty calls. But he's also the one he can fix. He still displays certain traits of a franchise QB. Something is clearly off with him mentally, some sort of discomfort. He used to have good mechanics until last season tbh. That's a mental problem, and I don't know why he has it, but he does. It's fixable, but we need the right coach to do it(hence my massive advocation for Kubiak. We're stuck with Joe anyway. Let's bring in the one guy who has had consistent success with him).

Sure, we have invested a lot of money in the offseason, but some of the investments have been poor. The TE corps is either injured, or suspended at all times, Maclin is the only WR who consistently produces and has completely sound hands, Perriman has regressed somehow from last season, Buck Allen is more of a reciever than a running back, and.. Well Alex Collins is pretty good.

I do think us losing Danny Woodhead for ahwile has hurt the team more than anticipated. On those checkdowns he's shifty and quick and would be able to garner more yards. He has a few years left in the tank and his return will likely help the offense greatly.

Sure, the offensive line is playing well... But how long can they keep this up without Yanda there? Furthermore, what happens when they play a defense that is legit? Investments are still going to be needed there. No question. I still think we should go offensive line in the first few rounds.

The supporting cast has some questions. I'd honestly keep Maclin, Collins, Dixon, Woodhead, and Watson on a one year deal that's dirt cheap going into next season. This is the offseason to invest heavily with the weapons. Get a WR or two in FA, draft a WR, TE, or maybe even a RB even with the success of Collins. Collins keeps it up, he's going to be a #1 back. I think Marty is a problem, but not necessarily entirely as a playcaller. Flacco is not a fit in this type of offense. Which I think is a MASSIVE problem here. Sure, Marty isn't a fantastic playcaller, but let's not act like he's 100% to blame. I think that Pitta's claim has some validity, but either way Flacco is not a pure WCO QB.

Honestly though.. Marty and Harbaugh need to go. While Flacco is a part of the problem they have made some porous decisions that have ultimately made his life harder imo. Flacco is a SB winning QB who used to play really well in big games. He had proved that he was a franchise QB, and while it is a shame that it is almost time to find his replacement, I still don't think he's done just yet.

I still think getting Kubiak out of retirement is the way to go. We're stuck with Flacco's contract for awhile.. MAXIMIZE IT. GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH. Our olinmen have had success in the ZBS before and would likely do so again. Put Flacco in an offense that plays to his strengths. Make him more comfortable. Worst comes to worst, we can draft his replacement in 2019. This offseason needs to be about the supporting cast on offense and offensive line and building a new scheme. If not for Flacco, then for the new guy in the future. We have invested enough on the defense that they're gonna be set for the next half decade. Half of the rebuilding process is already done.

2018: Get WRS, olinemen, a TE, and maybe another RB.
2019: QB, safety.

That's the play... 2018 will be a last push/chance for Flacco to redeem himself, likely under a new coaching staff. If he fails, then so will the rest of the team. it's younger than we are used to and will likely have growing pains, so if Flacco sucks again in 2018 we should have a top 15 pick. In trading range for a potential QB. And 2019 does not have a bad QB class.
 

purplepittabread88

Staff Member
Administrator
If you want my honest to god opinion of what the problem is...

Well.. Everything. Something is clearly off with Joe, and it's mental. The scheme... Well to put it frankly it sucks. Even if Pitta exaggerated his claim(I personally think Harbaugh is being a politician again and is just trying to cover his ass. Again, put yourself in his position, you'd probably say the same thing. Not that I think what Pitta said is totally true, but even going back to last year.. There is tangible evidence to back up his claim. Particularly with how we use the TEs. Pitta would know, he was in Watson's position last year).

Flacco isn't to absolve from blame either. He's certainly part of the problem. He has the power to audible out of plays that Marty calls. But he's also the one he can fix. He still displays certain traits of a franchise QB. Something is clearly off with him mentally, some sort of discomfort. He used to have good mechanics until last season tbh. That's a mental problem, and I don't know why he has it, but he does. It's fixable, but we need the right coach to do it(hence my massive advocation for Kubiak. We're stuck with Joe anyway. Let's bring in the one guy who has had consistent success with him).

Sure, we have invested a lot of money in the offseason, but some of the investments have been poor. The TE corps is either injured, or suspended at all times, Maclin is the only WR who consistently produces and has completely sound hands, Perriman has regressed somehow from last season, Buck Allen is more of a reciever than a running back, and.. Well Alex Collins is pretty good.

I do think us losing Danny Woodhead for ahwile has hurt the team more than anticipated. On those checkdowns he's shifty and quick and would be able to garner more yards. He has a few years left in the tank and his return will likely help the offense greatly.

Sure, the offensive line is playing well... But how long can they keep this up without Yanda there? Furthermore, what happens when they play a defense that is legit? Investments are still going to be needed there. No question. I still think we should go offensive line in the first few rounds.

The supporting cast has some questions. I'd honestly keep Maclin, Collins, Dixon, Woodhead, and Watson on a one year deal that's dirt cheap going into next season. This is the offseason to invest heavily with the weapons. Get a WR or two in FA, draft a WR, TE, or maybe even a RB even with the success of Collins. Collins keeps it up, he's going to be a #1 back. I think Marty is a problem, but not necessarily entirely as a playcaller. Flacco is not a fit in this type of offense. Which I think is a MASSIVE problem here. Sure, Marty isn't a fantastic playcaller, but let's not act like he's 100% to blame. I think that Pitta's claim has some validity, but either way Flacco is not a pure WCO QB.

Honestly though.. Marty and Harbaugh need to go. While Flacco is a part of the problem they have made some porous decisions that have ultimately made his life harder imo. Flacco is a SB winning QB who used to play really well in big games. He had proved that he was a franchise QB, and while it is a shame that it is almost time to find his replacement, I still don't think he's done just yet.

I still think getting Kubiak out of retirement is the way to go. We're stuck with Flacco's contract for awhile.. MAXIMIZE IT. GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH. Our olinmen have had success in the ZBS before and would likely do so again. Put Flacco in an offense that plays to his strengths. Make him more comfortable. Worst comes to worst, we can draft his replacement in 2019. This offseason needs to be about the supporting cast on offense and offensive line and building a new scheme. If not for Flacco, then for the new guy in the future. We have invested enough on the defense that they're gonna be set for the next half decade. Half of the rebuilding process is already done.

2018: Get WRS, olinemen, a TE, and maybe another RB.
2019: QB, safety.

That's the play... 2018 will be a last push/chance for Flacco to redeem himself, likely under a new coaching staff. If he fails, then so will the rest of the team. it's younger than we are used to and will likely have growing pains, so if Flacco sucks again in 2018 we should have a top 15 pick. In trading range for a potential QB. And 2019 does not have a bad QB class.
Many people are pro tanking right now, but I think we can make the playoffs. If we do that could be huge in luring Kubiak back here. When he said contender, I'm sure he ment someone in the playoffs, not 6-10. I agree with basically everything you said but I think we should grab a tight end high instead of Watson. Especially if Kubiak is back, even if we retain Watson another TE is critical
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I think the reason Joe throws check downs so quickly is that he's playing scared. I have no stats to back it up but he looks flustered as soon as pressure begins to develop and takes off, throws it away or, at best, looks for the checkdown.

Can anyone remember the last time Joe completed a pass when he knew a hit was coming? Something you see every other QB in the league do.
There is a stat out there that shows how bad he is when there is pressure.
 

DeVito52

Ravens Ring of Honor
Many people are pro tanking right now, but I think we can make the playoffs. If we do that could be huge in luring Kubiak back here. When he said contender, I'm sure he ment someone in the playoffs, not 6-10. I agree with basically everything you said but I think we should grab a tight end high instead of Watson. Especially if Kubiak is back, even if we retain Watson another TE is critical
The playoffs are literally being handed to us and we still probably won’t get in lol
 
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