Lamar Jackson

[redrum52]

And this is why it makes absolutely no sense to tag him and let this play out another year. This team hates distractions and that is all this will be if he's here without a deal. Unless the FO finally has the right idea of seeing him with another OC(which they should have done earlier).

 

[JoeyFlex5]

and guess what?
even if it does happen... ill give him zero credit for being right because he's just guessing because it's clearly what he wants to happen

I’ll never understand why people want to state their predictions with such conviction. Like you make a wild ass prediction with zero evidence, and then basically tell everyone “You just wait and see, idiots! My gut says Lamar is leaving and I can’t wait to see you pussies cry about it!”

Like… okay… do you actually enjoy football or do you just like the rush of dopamine you get when a broad prediction you make is partially correct? Do you wanna discuss football or do you just wanna state a prediction and tell everyone to stfu afterwards?

 

[Simba]

And this is why it makes absolutely no sense to tag him and let this play out another year. This team hates distractions and that is all this will be if he's here without a deal. Unless the FO finally has the right idea of seeing him with another OC(which they should have done earlier).

I know I very well could be wrong, but I'm also with this line of thinking. The tag makes sense on paper to some extent, but I'm just not sure it's tenable at this point for either side. I'm not convinced either side wants another full year of speculation and media attention. I feel like the only plausible way this works is if the Ravens genuinely believe that some other QBs are going to get deals that are not ridiculously guaranteed by next offseason, and feel that those deals with push Lamar into a number they're more comfortable with.

With that, I still don't think a trade is as easy as some say. Not a lot of time for Lamar to work out a deal with another team. But Lamar still holds the leverage here and if the Ravens truly want to get something done with him, they need to just nut up and give their max offer if they haven't already. If there's no hope, you have to explore the trade market as much as that pains me to say. Just don't think this can be prolonged much more.

 

[rmcjacket23]

And this is why it makes absolutely no sense to tag him and let this play out another year. This team hates distractions and that is all this will be if he's here without a deal. Unless the FO finally has the right idea of seeing him with another OC(which they should have done earlier).

So here's my thing though...
who's causing the distraction? Can't be the franchise, because they've done what they should have done. They franchised him and will continue to negotiate if the player wants to.

There's literally only one party who actually can cause a distraction, and its Lamar. It doesn't have to be a distraction at all. It can be they negotiated for a few months, couldn't come to terms, team tags him, he gets paid a shitload of $ this year to play, and they'll continue to negotiate until they can't anymore.

He doesn't have to hold out. Neither party has to say anything. The distraction isn't artificial, nor is it even something the media can create. Its created by actions of the parties involved.

 

[Simba]

So here's my thing though...
who's causing the distraction? Can't be the franchise, because they've done what they should have done. They franchised him and will continue to negotiate if the player wants to.

There's literally only one party who actually can cause a distraction, and its Lamar. It doesn't have to be a distraction at all. It can be they negotiated for a few months, couldn't come to terms, team tags him, he gets paid a shitload of $ this year to play, and they'll continue to negotiate until they can't anymore.

He doesn't have to hold out. Neither party has to say anything. The distraction isn't artificial, nor is it even something the media can create. Its created by actions of the parties involved.

I made my thoughts known above, but one thing I left out on the distraction angle that's been running through my head is that if you do move on, are you basically just creating another distraction? If you get a veteran in here, does all of the media attention shift to "is this guy going to be able to carry Lamar's torch" and inviting all of the comparisons. If so, you might net even and in theory, you could just keep the significantly better QB and play this game for another year. Biggest concern is the potential damage that the relationship might have by this point. I don't think we're at a dire state but clearly headed the wrong direction and you don't want things to implode.

Not sure in any direction really, but just throwing out food for thought to add onto this.

 

[rossihunter2]

I made my thoughts known above, but one thing I left out on the distraction angle that's been running through my head is that if you do move on, are you basically just creating another distraction? If you get a veteran in here, does all of the media attention shift to "is this guy going to be able to carry Lamar's torch" and inviting all of the comparisons. If so, you might net even and in theory, you could just keep the significantly better QB and play this game for another year. Biggest concern is the potential damage that the relationship might have by this point. I don't think we're at a dire state but clearly headed the wrong direction and you don't want things to implode.

Not sure in any direction really, but just throwing out food for thought to add onto this.

if we trade lamar, there will never not be beat writers and national writers comparing everything the ravens do with how lamar's team is doing

if lamar stays on the tag another year - the questions dont go away
if lamar gets traded in 2023 - there's a bunch of new questions that may linger even longer than the contract ones

the only way the "distractions" go away is if lamar signs a long-term deal

 

[Simba]

if we trade lamar, there will never not be beat writers and national writers comparing everything the ravens do with how lamar's team is doing

if lamar stays on the tag another year - the questions dont go away
if lamar gets traded in 2023 - there's a bunch of new questions that may linger even longer than the contract ones

the only way the "distractions" go away is if lamar signs a long-term deal

Agreed.

The prospects of a long term deal are largely predicated in 2 ways.

1. The Ravens' willingness to reset the market
2. The Ravens' ability to diagnose the market for other QBs coming due soon

Basically becomes a question of whether or not you think another year of negotiating gets the job done, or if the gap is and will remain too far apart. Lamar still holds the leverage right now.

 

[rossihunter2]

Agreed.

The prospects of a long term deal are largely predicated in 2 ways.

1. The Ravens' willingness to reset the market
2. The Ravens' ability to diagnose the market for other QBs coming due soon

Basically becomes a question of whether or not you think another year of negotiating gets the job done, or if the gap is and will remain too far apart. Lamar still holds the leverage right now.

i know there's a lot of doom and gloom but i really do think the ravens (while not wanting to) would accept a year of "turmoil" to get this deal done in 2024 if they had to

the real danger is if both sides are waiting for burrow and herbert and nothing happens in those negotiations because those guys can wait out the lamar deal but the ravens cant wait out the lamar deal

 

[Dom McRaven]

Crying like a little baby because its likely Lamar wont be a Raven next season. Put a fork in Lamar. Hes done as a Raven.

You know what? I respect the reverse-jinx you're trying to pull. I see the vision.....

 

[Simba]

i know there's a lot of doom and gloom but i really do think the ravens (while not wanting to) would accept a year of "turmoil" to get this deal done in 2024 if they had to

the real danger is if both sides are waiting for burrow and herbert and nothing happens in those negotiations because those guys can wait out the lamar deal but the ravens cant wait out the lamar deal

Yep the Ravens have to have their finger on the pulse or stretching it out another year does no good whatsoever. In fact, probably lose even more leverage if those deals don't get done, because that 2nd tag price feels ultra untenable. Can at least make the tag this year work.

 

[UPennChem]

Yep the Ravens have to have their finger on the pulse or stretching it out another year does no good whatsoever. In fact, probably lose even more leverage if those deals don't get done, because that 2nd tag price feels ultra untenable. Can at least make the tag this year work.

No matter what way you look at it. No matter what hypothetical you choose, you find that it makes no sense for the Ravens to do anything but sign him RIGHT NOW.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yep the Ravens have to have their finger on the pulse or stretching it out another year does no good whatsoever. In fact, probably lose even more leverage if those deals don't get done, because that 2nd tag price feels ultra untenable. Can at least make the tag this year work.

if we get to 2024 and stick the 2nd tag on him, that's clearly just a tool to trade him at that point because that number sets the baseline for his deal and it's a tough number to do anything with and lamar has no incentive to negotiate once you stick that tag on him

2023 is a different matter

there's no way either side wants to play out 2023 on the tag but i think it's likely that both are willing to do that if they have to

 

[UPennChem]

This hurts

 

[rmcjacket23]

i know there's a lot of doom and gloom but i really do think the ravens (while not wanting to) would accept a year of "turmoil" to get this deal done in 2024 if they had to

the real danger is if both sides are waiting for burrow and herbert and nothing happens in those negotiations because those guys can wait out the lamar deal but the ravens cant wait out the lamar deal

My best guess is that if the Ravens keep him on the tag this year, its basically one more year of "data" to figure out a) can he stay healthy and be available late in the season and b) what does he looks like with a different OC.

If Lamar has a great year, they'll probably just come close or meet all of his demands. If he doesn't, they'll trade him.

Put another way... if Lamar's 2023 season goes basically the same as 2021 or 2022 from a production standpoint, he won't be a Raven next year in my opinion. His output and the teams output has to look a LOT more like 2019.

And yes, that will be somewhat hard to do when the franchise tag limits the amount of resources you have to upgrade the players you want to make that happen.

 

[UPennChem]

Been saying for a little while that FAs might be really turned off to the organization based on their PERCEPTION of how the Ravens are handling Lamar. Their perception does not even have to be right, but it can start to taint our image. WRs on the team were already begging to leave. I'm sure others as FAs knew not to come. If the FO gets a negative perception as being cheap and not valuing it's players that would be bad

 

[rmcjacket23]

No matter what way you look at it. No matter what hypothetical you choose, you find that it makes no sense for the Ravens to do anything but sign him RIGHT NOW.

I think if you're not confident he can stay healthy and be available when you need him to be, the franchise tag makes a ton of sense.

It almost makes a ton of sense if you're concerned that Roman wasn't really the problem with the offense.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Been saying for a little while that FAs might be really turned off to the organization based on their PERCEPTION of how the Ravens are handling Lamar. Their perception does not even have to be right, but it can start to taint our image. WRs on the team were already begging to leave. I'm sure others as FAs knew not to come. If the FO gets a negative perception as being cheap and not valuing it's players that would be bad

Well a) I think we're only shopping in the mid or lower tiers of FAs anyway, which means a lot of these guys don't have the ability to be choosers, and b) I suspect most of our receiving upgrades will come from the draft, which means the player doesn't really get to decide whether they want to be here or not.

 

[ravenslord]

Don't get sensitive now SpeculationLord.

Nothing you've posted has held any weight and you got called out on it

 

[rmcjacket23]

if we trade lamar, there will never not be beat writers and national writers comparing everything the ravens do with how lamar's team is doing

if lamar stays on the tag another year - the questions dont go away
if lamar gets traded in 2023 - there's a bunch of new questions that may linger even longer than the contract ones

the only way the "distractions" go away is if lamar signs a long-term deal

I personally think its more national writers than beat writers though. The national press really just sees the "highs" and does very little to identify the "lows" (i.e. lack of availability late in the season).

From the local beat writers I've seen, I think they're kind of "split". I think most think we should extend him long term, but I've seen very few suggest he should get a blank check or get the Watson deal, and I've seen several who are resigned to the fact that if they can't reach agreement this year, they should trade him.

 

[UPennChem]

I think if you're not confident he can stay healthy and be available when you need him to be, the franchise tag makes a ton of sense.

It almost makes a ton of sense if you're concerned that Roman wasn't really the problem with the offense.

On the health point, ok that's fair.

On the Roman point, everyone knows that a combination of injuries, poor roster construction at WR, and Roman were to blame.

Anyone who thinks it was all Roman was a fool