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The Good, The Bad and The Ugly - Jags edition

Willbacker

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
Militant X 1 said:
Well, what is that saying? I believe it's, "Winning covers everything but losing exposes it?" Unfortunately, coming in here after a loss flock members have a way of attacking one another because of differing views and opinions on what did or didn't happen in the game and what should be done to improve. We're all passionate fans of "our" Baltimore Ravens. So can everyone please say this with me:

"I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY!"
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I am not your enemy.

bitch slap.gif
 
UPennChem

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
RavensMania said:
you could say, GRo's offense needs specific pieces for it to work efficiently and I'm tired of giving him excuses. I'd let him finish out this season and then move on from him, no matter how far we go in the playoffs.
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I'm torn because I feel like he really had his chance with the correct team in 2019 and they just blew it. After that we had way more fundamental issues with OL and the pass rush and WRs. And the injuries injuries injuries.

But at the end of the day life isn't fair and you don't get an infinitely long leash. If Harbs moves on that would make sense to me. If he keeps him I can understand that too.
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
rmcjacket23 said:
Right, but there's a pretty easy argument that Flacco needed better receivers than Lamar does to succeed. In fact we pretty much know that, because Lamar won an MVP without much at receiver.

My point is an emphasis on valuing the WR position higher is a cultural shift for the organization, not a "the OC doesn't like them so lets not do it" paradigm.

For me, I'm not convinced of three things:
1. If we add better receivers, that Roman will know how to utilize them effectively
2. If we add better receivers, Lamar is going to elevate them or not lock onto specific players for long stretches for "trust reasons"
3. That the FO is going to start valuing WRs in-line with how other high-end franchises value them, and make investments similar to what they do.

And I don't think solving any single one of those items will automatically make this offense a world-beater either. I think you probably need combinations of multiple or all of those things for it to work.

One thing I'm fairly confident in is that the time for the organization to invest in high-end, proven WRs (i.e. trading draft capital and allocating large amounts of cap $ to the position) is pretty much in the past. That window is closed in my opinion, and is super closed if Lamar is playing 1-2 seasons on the franchise tag. WR upgrades are coming 1000% from the draft for the for-seeable future in my eyes.
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We definitely would need to draft a receiver in the top 3 rounds and most likely in the first round, unless we trade out of the first and down into the second, which I could see happening this season to recoup some picks. Totally agree we won't be paying top dollar, ie some franchises. That being said, I'm not saying the player needs to be a top dollar Wideout. Someone on the lines of OBJ could work as well. We already have Bateman and I believe he can be a #1 WR.

I also agree with your statement that Roman isn't going to know how to utilize WRs effectively, even if we added top receivers. The trust issue for me isn't too much of an issue, because he did utilize Bateman, although maybe not as much as we would have liked him to. I do agree he locks onto Andrews too much and needs to spread the ball around better.
 
UPennChem

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
Michael M. said:
I still maintain not having a #1 on the roster has really cost them games. There are two costly philosophies the Raven's have clung to for years: 1. Just run the ball and find someone cheap in FA who can be an occasional deep threat WR and 2. When the game is on the line, the defense gives up waaaayyy too much yardage in the name of preventing the deep play.
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Still don't think it has to be a true WR1, but a real WR2 coupled with a guy who has real speed and gadget guy like Duv is plenty to go next to Andrews. Problem is we didn't get DJax until a couple of weeks ago and he's not playing a lot of snaps. And DRob is not a nice high end WR2, but rather a WR3. With Bateman staying healthy this team would be a lot stronger.
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
UPennChem said:
I'm torn because I feel like he really had his chance with the correct team in 2019 and they just blew it. After that we had way more fundamental issues with OL and the pass rush and WRs. And the injuries injuries injuries.

But at the end of the day life isn't fair and you don't get an infinitely long leash. If Harbs moves on that would make sense to me. If he keeps him I can understand that too.
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2019 pains me so much. Had so many good things going for us and really, all the pieces you might have needed until the lights shined bright. But then we went through the OL pains. We finally figured that out after a couple of years and we're back to the weapons being the issue. Not that the 2019 was chock full of game changers but everything worked so well together. We just can't get all of those types of pieces back together again due to (a) injuries and (b) poor personnel decisions.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
RavensMania said:
We definitely would need to draft a receiver in the top 3 rounds and most likely in the first round, unless we trade out of the first and down into the second, which I could see happening this season to recoup some picks. Totally agree we won't be paying top dollar, ie some franchises. That being said, I'm not saying the player needs to be a top dollar Wideout. Someone on the lines of OBJ could work as well. We already have Bateman and I believe he can be a #1 WR.

I also agree with your statement that Roman isn't going to know how to utilize WRs effectively, even if we added top receivers. The trust issue for me isn't too much of an issue, because he did utilize Bateman, although maybe not as much as we would have liked him to. I do agree he locks onto Andrews too much and needs to spread the ball around better.
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First paragraph is my fear. Ain't no way this franchise is going to pigeon-hole themselves into drafting a certain position in the first round. Plenty of scenarios I see where WR isn't the choice in the first round. Especially true if we're moving on from somebody like Peters, which would open up decent sized hole in our secondary. Corner's going to be a hot topic this offseason also.

As we've discussed all offseason, much of these decisions will live or die with what happens with Lamar's deal. A franchise tag is quite limiting, and so I don't see them overhauling a WR room with that cap $ out there.
 
UPennChem

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
Willbacker said:
When it comes to older people not "getting it" it's cuz there was ramifications for it since you was saying it to somebodies face and not being an anonymous keyboard warrior. And you saying he didn't do nothing wrong?? Yeah he did. He didn't use no common sense.

Now we can get into whether this was "anti-gay". I agree with you. I don't think it was. It was a non common sense knee jerk reaction to something he shouldn't even have bothered with in the 1st place. Then was the poster even a man. Maybe the person was gender fluid non binary whatever. Last I knew gay men like dicks so I guess if it's seen as an insult then its is a weak argument imo when it's truth and I sure hope nothing comes of it. I mean if a man calls another man a bitch would that be an insult towards women? The whole thing is dumb and should just be put to bed.
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Exactly. We live in an entirely different world than a generation ago. Lamar shouldn't have done it because it wasnt nice and it's going to cause an unnecessary headache for himself. But it's not like it's illegal to send a troll message to someone who sent a troll message to you. It wasn't anti gay. The whole thing is a nonstory. But my point is that there are certain groups of people who LIVE for this kind of stuff.
 
M

Michael M.

Pro Bowler
UPennChem said:
Still don't think it has to be a true WR1, but a real WR2 coupled with a guy who has real speed and gadget guy like Duv is plenty to go next to Andrews. Problem is we didn't get DJax until a couple of weeks ago and he's not playing a lot of snaps. And DRob is not a nice high end WR2, but rather a WR3. With Bateman staying healthy this team would be a lot stronger.
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I agree that Bateman is missed but the culture has been to neglect the position. EDC had a lot of catching up to do to change that philosophy. Lamar, imo, is not a great passer so he may need a true #1 to make up for that. It's kind of the reverse of a Brady team. And my other question remains regarding the prevalence of injuries on this team-why so many, on both sides of the ball repeatedly.
 
OURavensFan

OURavensFan

Ravens Ring of Honor
Willbacker said:
Another thing is this is not a Lamar loss but a team loss. No time on the clock again!! Defense not holding a lead in the 4th again!! Receivers dropping passes left and right again!! Jeezus it's the whole body and it seems like everybody forgot that the Jags are an NFL team. Any given Sunday!!

It matters what kind of roll we on when we get closer to the playoffs. We're either running on all cylinders or at least 7 out of 8 or we're not. Bottomline is we can't take this loss like it's the end.
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Yea, losing just sucks so much. Hate having to wait all week for our next game. Ideally we win and Cincinnati loses
 
OURavensFan

OURavensFan

Ravens Ring of Honor
UPennChem said:
Exactly. We live in an entirely different world than a generation ago. Lamar shouldn't have done it because it wasnt nice and it's going to cause an unnecessary headache for himself. But it's not like it's illegal to send a troll message to someone who sent a troll message to you. It wasn't anti gay. The whole thing is a nonstory. But my point is that there are certain groups of people who LIVE for this kind of stuff.
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Yea I’m over it already. Watson is about to be playing
 
ndub

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
Deebo813 said:
How you call him a thug though man. Cmon
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If you’re gonna make comments like that, at the very least you’re a dumbass for not thinking about how you’ll be portrayed for the comments, even if it is wrong and unfair
 
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